Need Help Finishing my SuperSump...Really Cool

[hquintanilla]

I´ll appreciate some input from u guys...
I´m new in this hobby, and trying to design my sump...
Please se this renderings so we can talk the same ideas...

Well my design parameters where:
1.- The maximum dimensions for the sump are 27"front,14-3/4"deep,27"
2.- The skimmer inlet and outlet, and return should be on the same side.
3.- I want a Refugium with plenum for a sand bed and algae.

Well here are my questions:
1.-Having a 110G Reef Tank, what is a good ratio between the tank capacity and refugium...in this case I accomplish a 20-25G Refugium?
2.-what diameter should all holes be for the skimmer inlet, outlet, drain from tank, and return?
3.-Should the skimmer inlet and outlet be in other place, after the refug or is adecuate the way I design it?
4.-Should I use a Plenum in the Refug?
5.-I want to put some acuacontroller probes on a tray in the heater and probe chamber, but I don´´t know the diameter of the holes to drill on the tray, anybody knows the diameter?
6.-What can I do to make better this design.

Notes:
The Biomedia chamber is only to take out the splash and noise.
The Chemical Chamber is to treat ocasionaly the water.

Any comments really appreciated...keep them coming. I´m just waiting them to make the final design and go ahead and construct it...

Best Reagrds...

Don´t wast your money in beer, just drink Mexican Tequila...!

 

[henkelsfamily1]

Here are my thoughts and questions.

1) Nice CAD work

2) What is going to be your drain volume per hr and what type of skimmer are you using? I ask this because if you can not supply the skimmer with the required volume of water you have a problem with cavatation/pump burn out.

3) If your supply rate is able to keep up with the skimmer pump or is reater than what the skimmer pump can handle you will be a pretty good flow over the falls (surface skimmer, not necessary) and the fuge is basically useless if you do not have water "dwell" time.

4) Avoid the Bio Media as it will only lead to high Nitrates (assuming this is going to be a reef).

5) Ditch the NNR (plemum) idea and go with a simple deep sand beed. With the amout of volume you will see pushed through this sump design you would run the risk of eventually disrupting the anaerobic zone and have a real mess on your hands.

6) you would be safe drilling 1/2 inch holes for the probes. As for the bulkheads, it all depends on the pumps/equipment that are going to be that you connected. Gotta run but if I think of anything else I will post.

Regards

Walter

 

[hquintanilla]

Thanks for the input Walter,
My tank as I posted is a 110G.
The drain volume per hour I´m targeting is about 10x, so lets say 1200 GPH, So for this I´m getting a Iwaki 40RLXT Rated at 1200GPH.
The skimmer is a DIY Skimmer beckett 1408 based that will be run with a Iwaki 40RLT (Presure Rated 750GPH)
So the drain I´m thinking of is a 2 1" bulkheads conecting to a 1-1/2" pipe that will go directly to the sump.
My guess is that I should feed the skimmer with 3/4" and the skimmer return with a 1-1/4" gate valve conecting directly to the sump.
The think I don´t know yet is the apropiate diameter for the return, I guess 3/4" because the inlet of the return pump is 3/4".
For the return I want to split it intwo two 3/4" feeding two 3/4" seaswirls.
What do you think?

 

[hquintanilla]

I just tested the sump with a 1/3 scale model I made...
everything works great until past the refugium. I have to redesign chambers 7 (heater and prove chamber) and 8 (chamical chamber). I got to this conclusions.
1.- I have to integrate chamber 7 and 8 and make a interior chamber within the resulting chamber, this interior chamber will be what chamber 8 was intended. This way the new chamber containing the heaters, proves and chemicals will always have the same level of water in it....
2.- I have to reduce the chamber benidth the refugium to gain mor water volume contained if the pumps went off.
3.- I have to figure out a way to control the flow of water to the refugium. The idea of a divertion is good and I will apply it. but I have to find a way to control the water flow into the refugium.
Best Regards......
Please keep the ideas coming...

 

[hquintanilla]

other thing....
I concludend with the test that the sump can hold 3.5 gallons that in the full size comes up to 27 gallons, so after the modifications I think the volume will inclrease aprozimate to 35 gallons...

 

[AWD]

Did you really copyright your design?

The design looks like it's it'll function well. My only thought is if you need to run carbon periodically or for an emergency you would want to run all the water you can through it as fast you can.
What software do you use for your designs.

P.S.S. I applaud your efforts in pre-designing your sump.

 

[texman]

I agree that this is very nice CAD work!

I also built a custom sump much like yours, except using a 100g tank for my 500g main tank. As far as return pump bulkhead size, I would go as big as you can - preferably 1". With time, things will build up on all your sufaces and impede water flow. It is always much easier to use reducing couplings than to try to enlarge holes while your tank is running and things are full of water. As far as your skimmer outlow goes, keep in mind that almost all external skimmers are designed to gravity feed back into the sump. (I have an ETSS 2000 which I have raised above the water level of the sump - driven by an IWAKI 100 RLT pump)If your return from the skimmer is under the sump water level, then your skimmer will need to be raised quite high to allow water to re-enter your system. Therefore, your skimmer pump will have much more head than you might have previously anticipated and its flow may be reduced. The other thing, which may not be relevant in your case, since it sounds like you are quite familiar with acrylic manufacturing (I am not, being an orthopedic surgeon) is that all baffles must be securely glued. The first time that I built my sump, I used silicone caulking alone (since I did have much success with that in the past when I used glass), however the joints on the baffles that had to hold back pressure failed and destroyed my entire, well thought out design. Since then, I have used acrylic superglue to glue the baffles and supplemented all high stress joints with little blocks of acrylic along the main joints.

 

[hquintanilla]

Thanks everbody for the input...

AWD,
I design for living buildings and some where I learned the including the copyright statement you are your intelecctual property is protected by international laws, just by putting it there...They say that good invention come by accident, so maybe I will become rich with aout knowing it

One of the last chambers 8 is for chemical filtration, say activated carbon or other thigs, it intention is just to hold bags with chemicals for manteinace purposes...

Texman,
I will apply your thoughts about using a larger diameter and then using reducing bushings or adapters in the return.
The point you mention about gravity feed back, I missed and this could be a problem in my design I´ll have to thing other way of getting it into the sump...thanks...that would have been a problem I missed and catastrofic.
I just lerned to weld acrylic yesturday

, But I did my research before. I bought IPS Weld-On 3 (fast cruing), Wled-On 16, (more thick, for uneven joints), Weld-On 40 (for strong joint, is like expoxy and can weld acrylic to PVC and other plastics. I also bougth special plastic drill bits, they differ from normal ones...
If your interested in acrylic, visit this URL:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/jg/index.htm

Pathos,
I used Autocad 2002 for the geometry, Ligtscape 3.2 for the rendering, and Photoshop 6.0 for the text...
I also use MAX, and form Z...but I like more Autocad in this type of projects, because after the model its more easy for me to plot final plans. ´Lightscape has far superior capabilities from MAX, of course If you just want to make steady renders, if you want a animation I´ll go with MAX...

Regards...and keep the ideas coming...

 

[hquintanilla]

Sorry, I did´t mention that the new version of 3D Studio has the radiosity capabilities of Lightscape...Autodesk fused the two pakages together...

 

[hquintanilla]

I just came up with a idea to slow the water going into the refug...I can restrict the size and number of barbs in the surface skimmer on top of the refug baffle.....BUT! that´s constant, I have to guess the amount of barbs that will create the correct flow and I´m limited to 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 bits to route them....SO! why no use a kind of floodgate as in a dam...this way I can control the inflow to the refug and regulate if I need more or less....To do this I just need a couple of nylon screws, and somo acrylic plates....that I heve allready...
What you guys think?

 

[pathos]

looks like a 3-d studio MAX or form-z rendering. cool!

 

[mlundstrom]

KananKeban,
I can't help but notice that your surface skimmers, which I agree with henkelsfamily1 are unnecessary in a sump/refugium, are very close to the top of the design. Be very sure that in the event of a power failure your sump will be able to handle the overflow from your tank. Lowering the "surface skimmers" a few inches would increase your ability to handle a emergency overflow situation.

I also agree with removing the plenum, which will remove a degree of unnecessary complexity from the system.

Otherwise it looks good. I hope to see some pic's of it sometime.

 

[hquintanilla]

The surface skimmers are made, not for skimming purposes, I just put them in for some reasons. 1. as a protective mesh in the evantuality of adding some inverts to the refug. 2. as a mean of controling the flow to the refug. 3. The barbs in the surface skimmmers go 3" down, It´s adecuate or should I increase, say 4", 5"? This last one I´ve decided to do it other way, with a floodgate.

 

[dgasmd]

The only issue I see with your design except for the points brought up already is that you are going to have too much flow over the refugium and defect the purpuse of it. One thing I would suggest is to place you refugium in one end of the sump and place a very small powerhead where most of the water flows. This would pump into the refugium and just have the refugium drain back in the "active" waterflow area by gravity with some slots on the top as you ahve it now. This way, you leave all the space for overflow from the tank if the pump fails, you have your area for heaters and probes, you ahve the skimmer area, and it all works just great. Give it a thought and maybe it will work for you.
Alberto