This is a money pit hobby along the lines of owning a boat. If you don't buy the best now you will be replacing it down the road. I've seen/known plenty that have started and given up after less than a year. A reef tank can be a work of art or a nightmare depending on which side of the fence the chips fall. If you start out right the odds are in your favor. If you are on a limited budget start small not with a monster size tank. The bigger the tank the more of everything you will need including electricity. One last thing start with the easiest critters first. If you can't keep them you know you are in trouble. If you don't invest in reef keeping books (a mistake) at least follow these boards as much as possible and you will learn.
Just my own opinion but for the newbie that is pondering what tank size to go with, the rule buy the biggest you can afford is ok and all but I would like to state my personal opinion that if that winds up being at 55 gal PLEASE do yourself a favor and get the 75 Gal instead!
I own a 55 and I wish I had gone with the 75. The 55 gal tanks are ok but you WILL kick yourself over the loss of added room you will get with a 75.
Please save yourself a kick in the butt and get the 75!
peace
Ty
I own a 55 and I wish I had gone with the 75. The 55 gal tanks are ok but you WILL kick yourself over the loss of added room you will get with a 75.
Please save yourself a kick in the butt and get the 75!
peace
Ty
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by GMarsch:
<strong>
I am very excited about keeping a reeftank, especially one that represents a consistent biome. I am intersted in one day keeping a Red Sea tank. Any good sources for information here?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you're interested in setting up a Red Sea tank, check out this link (among other good pages at Bob Fenner's site):
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/redseafwgv1.htm
Also, I believe the same author has an article in the Feb. 2002 of FAMA on the fishes of the Red Sea.
<strong>
I am very excited about keeping a reeftank, especially one that represents a consistent biome. I am intersted in one day keeping a Red Sea tank. Any good sources for information here?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you're interested in setting up a Red Sea tank, check out this link (among other good pages at Bob Fenner's site):
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/redseafwgv1.htm
Also, I believe the same author has an article in the Feb. 2002 of FAMA on the fishes of the Red Sea.
My advice: keep spare parts on hand. I had to replace 2 bulbs on my VHO system last night, only to discover that 2 pairs of endcaps had totally MELTED. (They were only 6 months old!!!) I would have been S.O.L. if I hadn't had a full set of spare parts in my "junk room".
Also, chopsticks are a great thing to have on hand if you drop a metal bolt into your tank...
Also, chopsticks are a great thing to have on hand if you drop a metal bolt into your tank...
Read. Read for months. I read for years before I got a tank and I don't regret it for one minute.
Buy quality. Period.
Buy the biggest tank you can ever conceive owning. If you don't you'll end up going bigger in the long run. Believe me, you WILL.
Find someone in your area that has tanks and nag 'em with questions.
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ OR HEAR. Take reefers with a grain of salt.
Buy quality. Period.
Buy the biggest tank you can ever conceive owning. If you don't you'll end up going bigger in the long run. Believe me, you WILL.
Find someone in your area that has tanks and nag 'em with questions.
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ OR HEAR. Take reefers with a grain of salt.
The biggest lessons I have learned (so far) are:
1) Try to plan out all the livestock you eventually want in your tank, then bounce your plan off people on BB's, they will be able to tell you what you can and can't have together and when things should be added.
2) Inspect everything you add to your tank. I learned the hard way that snails I added brought parasitic pyramid snails with them that killed a maxima clam.
3) Corals, especially SPS, need to be acclimated to light as well as water (learned this last week). Add them lower in the tank and move them up as they get used to your light levels.
4) Everyone suggests mushrooms as a good beginner coral, then everyone later has to try to get rid of their mushrooms because they are fighting chemical warfare against much more prized species or taking over their reef. Repeating suggestion #1, we all make impulse buys, and plans change, but the more you can plan everything you eventually want to add to your tank, the better your chances of success and the less money you will blow.
5) Buy a bigger tank. I'm one of those limited to a 55g. If a 55g is all you can afford, save another couple of months and get a bigger tank. Waiting a few months until you can afford a 75, 90, 125 - whatever, will be much better than a few months into it when you realize how limited you are, and then try to figure out how to upgrade everything midstream to a larger tank.
6) Take anything a LFS tells you with a grain of salt, float their advice on the BB's, research in a couple of good books, and if it still jives, then it may be okay. I was told by a LFS I largely trusted just the other day that a tang would be a great addition to my 55g. I told him I thought a 55g was too small for a tang and he said to "just get a small one."
7) Do your part to ensure the future of this hobby by supporting conservation efforts, buying captive raised animals as much as possible, and avoiding livestock that have poor survival records in captivity. If you live on the coast, be carefull of how you dispose of anything from your tank, especially caulerpa.
1) Try to plan out all the livestock you eventually want in your tank, then bounce your plan off people on BB's, they will be able to tell you what you can and can't have together and when things should be added.
2) Inspect everything you add to your tank. I learned the hard way that snails I added brought parasitic pyramid snails with them that killed a maxima clam.
3) Corals, especially SPS, need to be acclimated to light as well as water (learned this last week). Add them lower in the tank and move them up as they get used to your light levels.
4) Everyone suggests mushrooms as a good beginner coral, then everyone later has to try to get rid of their mushrooms because they are fighting chemical warfare against much more prized species or taking over their reef. Repeating suggestion #1, we all make impulse buys, and plans change, but the more you can plan everything you eventually want to add to your tank, the better your chances of success and the less money you will blow.
5) Buy a bigger tank. I'm one of those limited to a 55g. If a 55g is all you can afford, save another couple of months and get a bigger tank. Waiting a few months until you can afford a 75, 90, 125 - whatever, will be much better than a few months into it when you realize how limited you are, and then try to figure out how to upgrade everything midstream to a larger tank.
6) Take anything a LFS tells you with a grain of salt, float their advice on the BB's, research in a couple of good books, and if it still jives, then it may be okay. I was told by a LFS I largely trusted just the other day that a tang would be a great addition to my 55g. I told him I thought a 55g was too small for a tang and he said to "just get a small one."
7) Do your part to ensure the future of this hobby by supporting conservation efforts, buying captive raised animals as much as possible, and avoiding livestock that have poor survival records in captivity. If you live on the coast, be carefull of how you dispose of anything from your tank, especially caulerpa.
i dont agree with these big tank suggestions. i have a 10 gallon nano and i am very happy with it, and dont often think about a larger tank. and starting small, as long as you are already experienced with aquariums (i cant imagine where i would be in the reef hobby if i had not previosly tackled planted freshwater for 5 years) you should have the "instincts" of good observation too keep a small tank. and it is so much easier to deal with, and i will end up paying less than many pay for their protien skimmer alone.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I respectfully disagree. I think you should go with the largest tank you can affort, planning on spending $20-$50/gal when all is said and done. Larger tanks are easier to maintain, and are more forgiving of mistakes, IMO. I have had a 55 and a 180, and my 180 is 10 times easier than the 55.
my advice is to read and research before you buy. Tullock's Natural reef aquariums is a great starter book, and is far easier to read than Sprung's book.
Ernie
I respectfully disagree. I think you should go with the largest tank you can affort, planning on spending $20-$50/gal when all is said and done. Larger tanks are easier to maintain, and are more forgiving of mistakes, IMO. I have had a 55 and a 180, and my 180 is 10 times easier than the 55.
my advice is to read and research before you buy. Tullock's Natural reef aquariums is a great starter book, and is far easier to read than Sprung's book.
Ernie
Here are some questions newbies should ask of themselves:
1. Do you have the time? This hobby can take a lot of time or very little depending on how large and automated your system is.
2. Do you take lots of vacations/weekend trips? Depending on the size of your system and ease of maintainance, it may be able to sustain itself BUT if not you will need friends/neighbors to keep it stable while you are away.
3. Do you have frequent/lengthy power outtages in your area? You may need to think about generated power and other backup energy plans.
4. Are you planning on moving in the next couple of years? Moving a big tank with an established sandbed would be a major undertaking.
5. Do you have the space for a reef tank? I'm not just talking about the tank itself, but the extra hardware like a water topoff, kalk reactor, RO/DI system with a reservior. Some of these things just won't fit under a stand or a small apartment
.
6. Pick the largest volume of water you feel comfortable maintaining. Don't get a 100 gal just because it's bigger and has more stability, thinking that you can let water changes slide a bit. A bigger tank will need the same care as a smaller tank.
1. Do you have the time? This hobby can take a lot of time or very little depending on how large and automated your system is.
2. Do you take lots of vacations/weekend trips? Depending on the size of your system and ease of maintainance, it may be able to sustain itself BUT if not you will need friends/neighbors to keep it stable while you are away.
3. Do you have frequent/lengthy power outtages in your area? You may need to think about generated power and other backup energy plans.
4. Are you planning on moving in the next couple of years? Moving a big tank with an established sandbed would be a major undertaking.
5. Do you have the space for a reef tank? I'm not just talking about the tank itself, but the extra hardware like a water topoff, kalk reactor, RO/DI system with a reservior. Some of these things just won't fit under a stand or a small apartment
6. Pick the largest volume of water you feel comfortable maintaining. Don't get a 100 gal just because it's bigger and has more stability, thinking that you can let water changes slide a bit. A bigger tank will need the same care as a smaller tank.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by fishfarmer:
<strong>Here are some questions newbies should ask of themselves:
4. Are you planning on moving in the next couple of years? Moving a big tank with an established sandbed would be a major undertaking.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Also..if you DO plan on moving every now and then, like me... :rolleyes, maybe set up a system that has a bare bottom main tank and use a DSB in the refugium only. Trying to set up a full blown reef with a DSB will only extend set-up/breakdown times.
Mitch
<strong>Here are some questions newbies should ask of themselves:
4. Are you planning on moving in the next couple of years? Moving a big tank with an established sandbed would be a major undertaking.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Also..if you DO plan on moving every now and then, like me... :rolleyes, maybe set up a system that has a bare bottom main tank and use a DSB in the refugium only. Trying to set up a full blown reef with a DSB will only extend set-up/breakdown times.
Mitch
This is another good post. People have given some great ideas. I have to say that I agree with Ernie on this topic. The bigger the better. Especially for a beginner. I have had ponds from 50, 250, and 1200 gallons. Freshwater tanks from 10 to 70. I have also had reefs tanks from 10,30,40, and now an 80. I wish I would have combined all the money I blew on the little tanks for a 180 or 300. It was the same for Koi ponds and reef tanks alike. The bigger the easier. You will have more room for critters to grow in the big tanks and less fluctuation of water parameters. It will be more costly in the long run but the time you have to wait is good time to research.
I was also thinking as I read this. I wonder how many people actually did a LOT of hardcore research before buying. I think it is most likely that people got inteerested checked out the colors the cost and said oh yeah. Then they spent the rest of the time playing catch-up. For me personally, I got in a little over my head to begin with but that is not unusual for me really. I enjoy the pressure of having to learn. Otherwise I will get bored and start something else like "another" tank. hahah. I really bet most people are in catchup mode. The good thing is that things are changing daily like someone else mentioned and there is good info available...
I was also thinking as I read this. I wonder how many people actually did a LOT of hardcore research before buying. I think it is most likely that people got inteerested checked out the colors the cost and said oh yeah. Then they spent the rest of the time playing catch-up. For me personally, I got in a little over my head to begin with but that is not unusual for me really. I enjoy the pressure of having to learn. Otherwise I will get bored and start something else like "another" tank. hahah. I really bet most people are in catchup mode. The good thing is that things are changing daily like someone else mentioned and there is good info available...
Here's a couple of practical tips:
1) Don't put Engineer Gobies in your tank to sift the DSB. They grow...and grow...and grow...and... Our two grew to be over 9" long each. They would totally rearrange the tank and were a general PITA. And, hard to capture! (We eventually used a hook and line. Not our favorite thing to do!)
2) Do put your base on casters (having reinforced the base so that it won't collapse first.) That way you can get behind your setup for maintenance, painting a wall, cleaning up, whatever. (We didn't...so sad....)
1) Don't put Engineer Gobies in your tank to sift the DSB. They grow...and grow...and grow...and... Our two grew to be over 9" long each. They would totally rearrange the tank and were a general PITA. And, hard to capture! (We eventually used a hook and line. Not our favorite thing to do!)
2) Do put your base on casters (having reinforced the base so that it won't collapse first.) That way you can get behind your setup for maintenance, painting a wall, cleaning up, whatever. (We didn't...so sad....)
I think it was Harrison that asked how many people actually do hardcore research before they buy anything. I can't speak for everyone, but here's my story. I'll start at the beginning, and when I get to the end, I'll stop. (Sorry, I've been watching Alice in wonderland with my kids this week.)
After our son was born we had to get rid of our ferret because the little fuzzy had a thing for dragging the kid under the couch. Yeah. Anyway, we started looking for a more kid friendly pet and something that could be a fairly long term commitment, ie no mice, etc. I'd kept freshwater fish as kid for about a dozen years but hadn't had any for about 8. Eventually it became a tossup between birds and fish. I had also bred budgies, and we spent some time talking with my parents about their experience with my animal keeping, since my memories were pretty colored.
So we decided on fish. I had always been told that saltwater was expensive and very difficult. But we went to several fish stores, and looked at many pictures of tanks before deciding that we wanted to do salt. Cost and difficulties are just small obsticals to be overcome. We then made a list of all of the fish that we wanted to have, as yet we didn't know you could have corals, clams, etc. The list included eels, lionfish, groupers, puffers, clowns, tangs, pretty much a sample of everything. So I spent about a month coming home at night and scouring the net for info on our various fish. At the top of our short list were seahorses.
I spent the next month trying to learn 'all there was to know' about keeping seahorses. This is the setup I figured I needed, keep in mind that all of the info I had the time said that SH are extremely fragile and shouldn't be kept with other fish. I needed: a 50+ gallon tank that was atleast 18" tall, and preferably thicker also so as to have better aquascape; a 10-20 gallon refugium complete with plenum; a plumbing scheme to get the water back and forth between the two tanks; basic lighting since SH come from a lowlight area; protein skimmer; mechanical filter; minimal cleanup crew; algae for nutrient export.
I then went and bought a 58 gallon show 36x18x21 and stand and a 20 gallon normal and stand. I rigged a maxi-jet1200 and flex tubing to pump the water and 1.5" primed U tube as a return. I put a six inch sand bed w/plenum in the refugium and 1" of crushed coral in the main tank. I then ordered the live rock #90 and the live sand #30. The rock cured/cycled in about 10 days. Once the parameters were clean again I ordered: variety of macroalgae; red tip and scarlet hermits; margaritas and turbos; peppermint and cerith snails; a brittle star and impatiens cuke; stomatella varia and mysid/gammarus/amphi/copepod culture; mini brittle and soft stars; bristleworms and an emerald mithrax crab; peppermint, coral banded, and camelback shrimp; and a red fromia and blue linkia. We spent hours and hours just staring at these guys. Then I lost my job and we didn't have enough cash to get anything else for about two months.
In that two month period I kept reading. I found that there are loads of fish that can be kept with seahorses. I found out about corals, of which I am hooked on. We got a couple silver mollies and a week later we got a scooter dragonet. The tank stayed the same until I got some extra lights, which have seen burned up. Heh used means used up. I traded some macros for some green star polyps and xenia, and have also bought some blue chromis and percula clowns and toadstool. I've got a BTA and two cleaner shrimp headed this way for tuesday. I'll get myself some new VHOs when I come back from OCS.
Casualties:
red fromia and blue linkia
The fromia had already started to separate when I opened the box, so I attribute him to shipping. His replacement arrives with the BTA. However, the linkia hung around for about 10 days, and I think it was the acclimation technique. I followed the directions from the company which were the same for fish. I now trickle everything.
6 black mollies
All died overnight. I honestly attribute them to the LFS they came from.
1 silver mollie
Had her for about 3 months. She started breathing hard, which I attributed to the sudden decrease in pH, but she died shortly after I fixed the problem. I was too slow.
1 mithrax crab
No friggin idea. No changes in behavior or appearance. He woke up one morning and was dead. Had him almost 3 months.
2 camelback shrimp
Atleast I think they're dead. But I've thought that twice before only to find them both hopping around.
2 blue damsels
The bigger ones bullied them around. I was told they schooled.
As you can see I still haven't got those seahorses. Right now the plan is to get some after we move this summer. I'd have to say the biggest lessons I've learned are keep reading and never forget the people with the livestock you want are salesman and behave like salesmen.
I've had the tank up since 08/06/2001 and everyone looks extra-super happy. Any suggestions?
After our son was born we had to get rid of our ferret because the little fuzzy had a thing for dragging the kid under the couch. Yeah. Anyway, we started looking for a more kid friendly pet and something that could be a fairly long term commitment, ie no mice, etc. I'd kept freshwater fish as kid for about a dozen years but hadn't had any for about 8. Eventually it became a tossup between birds and fish. I had also bred budgies, and we spent some time talking with my parents about their experience with my animal keeping, since my memories were pretty colored.
So we decided on fish. I had always been told that saltwater was expensive and very difficult. But we went to several fish stores, and looked at many pictures of tanks before deciding that we wanted to do salt. Cost and difficulties are just small obsticals to be overcome. We then made a list of all of the fish that we wanted to have, as yet we didn't know you could have corals, clams, etc. The list included eels, lionfish, groupers, puffers, clowns, tangs, pretty much a sample of everything. So I spent about a month coming home at night and scouring the net for info on our various fish. At the top of our short list were seahorses.
I spent the next month trying to learn 'all there was to know' about keeping seahorses. This is the setup I figured I needed, keep in mind that all of the info I had the time said that SH are extremely fragile and shouldn't be kept with other fish. I needed: a 50+ gallon tank that was atleast 18" tall, and preferably thicker also so as to have better aquascape; a 10-20 gallon refugium complete with plenum; a plumbing scheme to get the water back and forth between the two tanks; basic lighting since SH come from a lowlight area; protein skimmer; mechanical filter; minimal cleanup crew; algae for nutrient export.
I then went and bought a 58 gallon show 36x18x21 and stand and a 20 gallon normal and stand. I rigged a maxi-jet1200 and flex tubing to pump the water and 1.5" primed U tube as a return. I put a six inch sand bed w/plenum in the refugium and 1" of crushed coral in the main tank. I then ordered the live rock #90 and the live sand #30. The rock cured/cycled in about 10 days. Once the parameters were clean again I ordered: variety of macroalgae; red tip and scarlet hermits; margaritas and turbos; peppermint and cerith snails; a brittle star and impatiens cuke; stomatella varia and mysid/gammarus/amphi/copepod culture; mini brittle and soft stars; bristleworms and an emerald mithrax crab; peppermint, coral banded, and camelback shrimp; and a red fromia and blue linkia. We spent hours and hours just staring at these guys. Then I lost my job and we didn't have enough cash to get anything else for about two months.
In that two month period I kept reading. I found that there are loads of fish that can be kept with seahorses. I found out about corals, of which I am hooked on. We got a couple silver mollies and a week later we got a scooter dragonet. The tank stayed the same until I got some extra lights, which have seen burned up. Heh used means used up. I traded some macros for some green star polyps and xenia, and have also bought some blue chromis and percula clowns and toadstool. I've got a BTA and two cleaner shrimp headed this way for tuesday. I'll get myself some new VHOs when I come back from OCS.
Casualties:
red fromia and blue linkia
The fromia had already started to separate when I opened the box, so I attribute him to shipping. His replacement arrives with the BTA. However, the linkia hung around for about 10 days, and I think it was the acclimation technique. I followed the directions from the company which were the same for fish. I now trickle everything.
6 black mollies
All died overnight. I honestly attribute them to the LFS they came from.
1 silver mollie
Had her for about 3 months. She started breathing hard, which I attributed to the sudden decrease in pH, but she died shortly after I fixed the problem. I was too slow.
1 mithrax crab
No friggin idea. No changes in behavior or appearance. He woke up one morning and was dead. Had him almost 3 months.
2 camelback shrimp
Atleast I think they're dead. But I've thought that twice before only to find them both hopping around.
2 blue damsels
The bigger ones bullied them around. I was told they schooled.
As you can see I still haven't got those seahorses. Right now the plan is to get some after we move this summer. I'd have to say the biggest lessons I've learned are keep reading and never forget the people with the livestock you want are salesman and behave like salesmen.
I've had the tank up since 08/06/2001 and everyone looks extra-super happy. Any suggestions?
As stated by others read,read,read!!!!!!!!!!
Also be patient,PATIENT----that is probably the hardest. I have had aquariums since I was 7, as my dad raised guppies and koi. If you have freshwater experience saltwater fish have pretty much the same characteristics;ie,if you can tell by the actions of the fish you will head off a lot of losses. YOU WILL HAVE LOSSES!!! Do not believe everything you are told--- use common sense and research. I had a very close friend and experienced reefer assure me that the Flame Hawkfish was reefsafe. What is his version of reef safe and mine----- he mean't corals and I mean't inverts and corals. After being in tank for one month I began to notice my shrimp collection begin to shrink. One night I happened to observe him attack and devour my prized ($50) Blood Shrimp!!!! He got moved to the "big fish" tank (groupers,tangs,etc) and has done fine. After further research I dicovered that shrimp fit into their diet in nature--so listen but beware.
Observe,observe,and observe!!!!!!!!!!! As I have said fish and inverts will let you know when things are going wrong. Once you can sense the priors reactions then begin moving to corals due to their reactions can be less subtle sometimes. You will begin to notice differences in coloration, inflation, and mucus output and be able to react accordingly. this is where patience pays off the most as your return on investment will be greater. Do not kid yourself this is an investment. I do not agree on going so far that it kills your budget. A 55,75, or even a 90 is a great starter. I know I will get negative feedback on this but my first one was a 55 no skimmer, a sunpaq light and standard sump ( aquarium predrilled). I used 5 gal buckets to mix water right out of tap and a good salt mix (Corallife). I still have this tank and is the most viewed and favorite of visitors and friends. I still have original setup and a diverse fauna---fish,clams,anenemoes,soft and hard corals. Just yesterday I had my featherdusters release spawn (eggs & sperm). My point here is start moderately as the loss will not be as great if this is not for you! I have seen too many friends loose $$$$$---you will not get what you paid!!!!!!
You will enjoy beyond your highest expectations if you use others wisdom. The best teacher is trial and error as there is still much to learn in this hobby. How do you think the original reefers learned as there was very little data and research available. I have learned more from this method. I wish you the greatest of luck and joy from your efferts. Hope we all can help.
Also be patient,PATIENT----that is probably the hardest. I have had aquariums since I was 7, as my dad raised guppies and koi. If you have freshwater experience saltwater fish have pretty much the same characteristics;ie,if you can tell by the actions of the fish you will head off a lot of losses. YOU WILL HAVE LOSSES!!! Do not believe everything you are told--- use common sense and research. I had a very close friend and experienced reefer assure me that the Flame Hawkfish was reefsafe. What is his version of reef safe and mine----- he mean't corals and I mean't inverts and corals. After being in tank for one month I began to notice my shrimp collection begin to shrink. One night I happened to observe him attack and devour my prized ($50) Blood Shrimp!!!! He got moved to the "big fish" tank (groupers,tangs,etc) and has done fine. After further research I dicovered that shrimp fit into their diet in nature--so listen but beware.
Observe,observe,and observe!!!!!!!!!!! As I have said fish and inverts will let you know when things are going wrong. Once you can sense the priors reactions then begin moving to corals due to their reactions can be less subtle sometimes. You will begin to notice differences in coloration, inflation, and mucus output and be able to react accordingly. this is where patience pays off the most as your return on investment will be greater. Do not kid yourself this is an investment. I do not agree on going so far that it kills your budget. A 55,75, or even a 90 is a great starter. I know I will get negative feedback on this but my first one was a 55 no skimmer, a sunpaq light and standard sump ( aquarium predrilled). I used 5 gal buckets to mix water right out of tap and a good salt mix (Corallife). I still have this tank and is the most viewed and favorite of visitors and friends. I still have original setup and a diverse fauna---fish,clams,anenemoes,soft and hard corals. Just yesterday I had my featherdusters release spawn (eggs & sperm). My point here is start moderately as the loss will not be as great if this is not for you! I have seen too many friends loose $$$$$---you will not get what you paid!!!!!!
You will enjoy beyond your highest expectations if you use others wisdom. The best teacher is trial and error as there is still much to learn in this hobby. How do you think the original reefers learned as there was very little data and research available. I have learned more from this method. I wish you the greatest of luck and joy from your efferts. Hope we all can help.
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