best place to order pods and worms?
- Thread starter Yellowboy
- Start date
I have orderd some items (mini stars, bristle worms, dwarf limpets, cerith snails etc) to boost my sandbed from Greg Hiller. His prices were very reasonable. I think i spent maybe $50 for 6 orders (orders of 1 dozen each) shipped overnight! Everything was well packaged in a small sytrofoam cooler, bags labeled even. E-mail him at [email protected] and ask for his price sheet, he also sells coral frags but has everything you would need/want to set up a refugium. I was very happy with what I received.
Keith
Keith
You could buy them from another aquarist 
Lots of folks (myself included) have refugiums and large tanks with good populations of critters. If you posted a question in the Reefkeepers Marketplace on this board, I'd be willing to be someone would bite.
Ideally however you want to overnight the box, and from just about anywhere, that's going to run you some dough... even from someone close to you. Worth a shot at any rate. It's very easy to go to Fed/Ex.com and plug in each other's Zip codes to get an approximation on shipping charges.
- Mac
Lots of folks (myself included) have refugiums and large tanks with good populations of critters. If you posted a question in the Reefkeepers Marketplace on this board, I'd be willing to be someone would bite.
Ideally however you want to overnight the box, and from just about anywhere, that's going to run you some dough... even from someone close to you. Worth a shot at any rate. It's very easy to go to Fed/Ex.com and plug in each other's Zip codes to get an approximation on shipping charges.
- Mac
Well, you could go the inexpensive way. Forget about all that sand critter hooey. It's all just hot air. Then, a year from now when you can't get your nitrates down and you spend $500 on a more powerful skimmer and a lot of money on algae magnets, and a lot of time cleaning your tank you can sit down and enjoy the few corals that manage to peek out.
OR...
You can spend $100 on a good detrivore package. Look at Inland's price list. I made up my own package (and spent $185) for a ten gallon aquarium and got algae and critters and inoculated sand, etc. Best money I have ever spent on my tank. Hardly a week later and things are looking MUCH more manageable. I imagine that nitrates are down and I can see the production of cyanobacteria declining rapidly. It's a lot less expensive to set up an aquarium the right way than in is to fight a lingering battle with algae and poor conditions IMHO.
Josh
P.S. Because "IMHO" is rarely humble and always right!
OR...
You can spend $100 on a good detrivore package. Look at Inland's price list. I made up my own package (and spent $185) for a ten gallon aquarium and got algae and critters and inoculated sand, etc. Best money I have ever spent on my tank. Hardly a week later and things are looking MUCH more manageable. I imagine that nitrates are down and I can see the production of cyanobacteria declining rapidly. It's a lot less expensive to set up an aquarium the right way than in is to fight a lingering battle with algae and poor conditions IMHO.
Josh
P.S. Because "IMHO" is rarely humble and always right!
Setup a refugium and get some fresh LR, uncured preferably. Let this be your 'starter kit'.
I have found the most life and diversity come from LR. After letting this settle out, and do remember to feed this refugium as well. Then order or trade for whatever critters you didn't manage to get with the LR. Probably save money in the short and long run, and the extra rock can only help out the system.
I have found the most life and diversity come from LR. After letting this settle out, and do remember to feed this refugium as well. Then order or trade for whatever critters you didn't manage to get with the LR. Probably save money in the short and long run, and the extra rock can only help out the system.
JoshF - you spoke of the exact topic I was about to post a question about. Live sand bed with worms, vs an ample population of hermits. Hermits, which are immaculate cleanup for LR and keep hair algae down vs a deep sand bed for worms, which are supposed to be good cleaners and help provide nutrients to corals. So far I find that a deep sand bed just provides an ugly thin layer of algae - but I've heard people say it is *the* way to go. I'm new to the hobby, so I don't know.
Obie, read the reef aquarium by Sprung and Delbeek. The explain the DSB pretty well. I have not been a big fan of the DSB but after a little more research it makes sense. Not sure I want that in my show tank but i do have it in my refugium which is of course attatched.
These books are very interesting.
HARRISON
These books are very interesting.
HARRISON
Thanks Steve:
To those who ask about DSBs... Well, hermits are all right for a particular type of set-up. The problem is, they eat algae, but this doesn't remove anything from the system. Hermits don't grow or reproduce particularly rapidly, so your nutrients just get recycled back into the water as hermit poop.
Now, a thriving colony of a lot of different types and sizes of worms will eat an amazing amount of bacteria and sift your sand. Do a few web-searches for succinct articles on DSBs. The worms reproduce VERY quickly, so much of the nutrient export is in the form of protein formation for the bodies of the worms. If you are worried about a thin layer of algae, don't be. Just get a fighting conch, or if you have a LARGE tank with a square yard or so of sand get a queen conch. These are great for eating algae off of the sand. Of course, after a good length of time running a DSB with good macroalgae growth you won't have much algae on the sand bed.
Hermits are alright for display tanks, but they actually kill and eat many of the helpful sand organisms BEFORE they'll eat algae. So, if you want a thriving sand bed, which means a lower maintenance tank, either keep the DSB in a separate tank or give the hermits to someone going through an algae bloom.
As far as what I got, I got the following:
Mysis/Gammarus Starter Kit: little shrimp that will eat algae and detritus
Mini Brittle Star: Grow to a maximum size of about 3/4 of an inch and sift the sand and eat algae and detritus
Microstar: About the same size, but tend to stay on rocks and eat algae and detritus
Baby Bristle worm: Dig deep into sand layer and into nooks and crannies in rocks and eat a TON of bacteria and detritus
Flora Kit: various macroalgaes for nitrate export. Very pretty colors from dark reds to light greens
Queen Conch: As mentioned above, these guys eat a lot of algae, but grow large and will need a large tank
Microvert Kit: This is essentially a bunch of sand seeded with what Dr. Shimek would refer to as interstitial meiofauna, or in more accessible terms all the very small critters about the size of 2-3 grains of sand that live on or between the sand grains. This is the most overlooked part and probably the most important. You'll rarely see them, but they are what make live sand "live." Or, that's the theory.
The problem with trying to set-up a DSB is that these little tiny worm-like creatures are one of the most important things to get it running efficiently. You see a lot of people say that you can get a live-sand bed seeded with live rock. This is only partly true. Some of the creatures like bristleworms and some of the larger spaghetti worms will hitchhike in on live rock. Many of these smaller worms ONLY live in fine sand beds. The only way to get them in your system is by putting in one of these microvert kits. Inland Aquatics sells them. Premium Aquatics sells the sludge from their live-rock bin as another way to get different creatures in the sand. People who use DSBs and get them going extremely well will rave about how little maintenance they have to do on the tanks. You just have to pony-up up front and get that sand-bed taken care of first.
Do spend some time reading through the on-line articles and archived discussions on sand-beds.
Here's a few to get you started!
Eric Borneman and Jonathan Lowrie on Sand Beds
Dr. Shimek on Sand Beds
A LARGE list of sand-bed references
Josh
P.S. If you do go out and spend a lot of money on worms, PLEASE pull your hermits out of your refugium or main tank as they will seriously inhibit the growth of these guys and will possibly eat them before they take off in growth. I lost my queen conch in 15 hours to a @#% hermit. Expensive crab food.
To those who ask about DSBs... Well, hermits are all right for a particular type of set-up. The problem is, they eat algae, but this doesn't remove anything from the system. Hermits don't grow or reproduce particularly rapidly, so your nutrients just get recycled back into the water as hermit poop.
Now, a thriving colony of a lot of different types and sizes of worms will eat an amazing amount of bacteria and sift your sand. Do a few web-searches for succinct articles on DSBs. The worms reproduce VERY quickly, so much of the nutrient export is in the form of protein formation for the bodies of the worms. If you are worried about a thin layer of algae, don't be. Just get a fighting conch, or if you have a LARGE tank with a square yard or so of sand get a queen conch. These are great for eating algae off of the sand. Of course, after a good length of time running a DSB with good macroalgae growth you won't have much algae on the sand bed.
Hermits are alright for display tanks, but they actually kill and eat many of the helpful sand organisms BEFORE they'll eat algae. So, if you want a thriving sand bed, which means a lower maintenance tank, either keep the DSB in a separate tank or give the hermits to someone going through an algae bloom.
As far as what I got, I got the following:
Mysis/Gammarus Starter Kit: little shrimp that will eat algae and detritus
Mini Brittle Star: Grow to a maximum size of about 3/4 of an inch and sift the sand and eat algae and detritus
Microstar: About the same size, but tend to stay on rocks and eat algae and detritus
Baby Bristle worm: Dig deep into sand layer and into nooks and crannies in rocks and eat a TON of bacteria and detritus
Flora Kit: various macroalgaes for nitrate export. Very pretty colors from dark reds to light greens
Queen Conch: As mentioned above, these guys eat a lot of algae, but grow large and will need a large tank
Microvert Kit: This is essentially a bunch of sand seeded with what Dr. Shimek would refer to as interstitial meiofauna, or in more accessible terms all the very small critters about the size of 2-3 grains of sand that live on or between the sand grains. This is the most overlooked part and probably the most important. You'll rarely see them, but they are what make live sand "live." Or, that's the theory.
The problem with trying to set-up a DSB is that these little tiny worm-like creatures are one of the most important things to get it running efficiently. You see a lot of people say that you can get a live-sand bed seeded with live rock. This is only partly true. Some of the creatures like bristleworms and some of the larger spaghetti worms will hitchhike in on live rock. Many of these smaller worms ONLY live in fine sand beds. The only way to get them in your system is by putting in one of these microvert kits. Inland Aquatics sells them. Premium Aquatics sells the sludge from their live-rock bin as another way to get different creatures in the sand. People who use DSBs and get them going extremely well will rave about how little maintenance they have to do on the tanks. You just have to pony-up up front and get that sand-bed taken care of first.
Do spend some time reading through the on-line articles and archived discussions on sand-beds.
Here's a few to get you started!
Eric Borneman and Jonathan Lowrie on Sand Beds
Dr. Shimek on Sand Beds
A LARGE list of sand-bed references
Josh
P.S. If you do go out and spend a lot of money on worms, PLEASE pull your hermits out of your refugium or main tank as they will seriously inhibit the growth of these guys and will possibly eat them before they take off in growth. I lost my queen conch in 15 hours to a @#% hermit. Expensive crab food.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
