About to Give Up !

[toptank]

Sorry if this is a long post but I have to vent.

About 3 weeks ago I lost 80% of my SPS to "RTN" I believe. I had a heat spike as I do not have a chiller and that is a long story by itself. So thought about selling my tank but decided I would just stick with softies and leathers and ofourse my clams that I have already. So I changed out the MH and put in 4X 60" 140 watt VHOs.

Now today I got home and as soon as I walked in I spelled something terrible and yes it was from my tank. 4 of my clams were dead, Xenia, bubble and my toadstool is laying on it side. I took out all the dead stuff and am doing a 15% water change (27 gal). Cleaned skimmer, and everything in my sump that I could take out. All fish look fine and they ate fine tonight. Something smells rotten in the tank so that is why I am doing a water change and going to add carbon.

Temp is 80 degrees
Nitrates <10ppm
Ca. 450ppm
Alk 9.9 dKh
Ph 8.4

The only thing I have done since Friday is, bought a yellow leather (small) yellow polyps, and a small colt coral. Cleaned the sides of the tank and did a small water change using NSW that I have had for about 2 weeks. By the way I have been using NSW from Scripps Institute for 7 months.

Don't have any Idea what else to do. I guess I will have to wait to see what happens.

I am SO UPSET AND GETTING SO TIRED OF THIS ! Everything for 1 1/2 years have been going so well.

Any suggestion?

Barry

PS Oh I forgot, when cleaning the tank I also stired up the sand in from but it is not a DSB just some #1 sand. Did I release something in the water that would have cause this much damage? I have a gobie and always is turning up sand so thought it would hurt to move it away from the front wall so that I could clean the front glass then moved it back in place.

[ October 21, 2001: Message edited by: toptank ]

 

[suckair]

As you have already determined there is a missing link of some kind. To actually smell death in an established tank indicates a major problem. There is some missing element. Is contamination possible such as cleaning agents, or any foreign material that could of got into the tank causing this massive die off? I would investigate further and get your skimmer running on over drive. If you have a massive die off of inverts and life on your rocks it will get much worse before it gets better. I would be prepared to relocate livestock if necessary. Take readings every day and do massive water changes. Until you figure out what happened assume nothing and investigate everything.

Randall

 

[hectina]

Do you have any sea cucumbers or sea apples?

 

[Bodine]

Sorry to hear of your problems.
Hang in there and dont give up.

Just grabbing at straws here, but one possiblilty, although slim is that the two new soft corals release some toxins.

Also for all clams to die like that I would also consider that the NSW was contaminated. You did say it was two weeks old. Any possibility it was contaminated.

I certainly would use salt mix for the water changes you are about to do. Just hope you can brew it fast enough.
Good Luck

 

[toptank]

Well go to bed this AM at 1AM. I mixed up some saltwater and did a 28 gal water change 15%. Cleaned all sponges that I have in the sump. Cleaned skimmer. When I woke up this morning it still spells fromt he sump. The thing I don't understand it that it doesn't seem to smell from the top of the tank but in the sump. The only thing I have in there is some LR, sponges, microbag and skimmer and that has all been cleaned? The fish still look good and eating. I still have a toadstool and some Xenia that looks like hell in the tank so tonight I will remove the canopy AGAIN and take them out as maybe they have died but thought that they were just not doing well, but again the tank it self doesn't smell bad.


Barry
I just don't understand this !

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: toptank ]

 

[liquid]

In regards to the halide lighting that you switched out for VHO's: were the softies and clams under that before you switched the lighting down? What wattage/bulbs were you running on your halides? Did you do any sort of "downgrade acclimating" to help your animals adjust to the lower PAR? If you had all the softies/clams under, say 400 watts of 6500 K Iwasaki's and downgraded to VHO w/o an acclimation period, you might have run into a bleaching event which ended in the deaths of many of your animals (including your clams, which btw, really do need at least 250 watt halides). This is just a guess, but it could be a possibility of you significantly changed your PAR intensity which caused many of your animals to bleach and subsequently die.

Shane
(aka "liquid")

 

[toptank]

Shane, good thought but over a period of 2 weeks I did lower my use of the MH beofre changing the lights. I had 3 x 400s and then turned of one and just ran 2 then reduced to one and supplimented with 2 VHOs. Then removing the 400 watters, added 2 more VHOs. Now I have 4 x 60" 140watt each totaling of 560 watts. All of the SPS were gone last months due to a heat spike that is why I decided to go with softies and leathers and my clams and get rid of the MH as they ran too hot. I couldn't put in a chiller for many reasons. Number 1, had no place to put the chiller and No2, circuit breaker wouldn't hold anymore amps. All clams were moved upward for more lights.

I am thinking that the Xenia, and toadstool are dead or dying and that is what has caused the contaminations. I will have to remove the canopy to night to get them out.

Barry

 

[GMH320]

Barry,
Are the sponges that you refer to filter sponges or live sponges? If they are live sponges, give them a sniff. I had a sponge that appeared normal from the outside, but was in fact decaying and really fouling the water. I noticed bubbles appearing from the center indicating that it was decaying and when I took it out, the smell almost knocked me over. Check your LR for decaying sponges also.

 

[toptank]

Greg, they are filter sponges.

It must be that Xenia and toadstool that is contaminating the water. ONLY thing I can think of. The other coral look OK except those.

 

[Emmitt]

Have you been keeping your NSW well aireated while in storage? If not, that may be the source of the problem. Dead planktonic life might have fouled the water. Even it it has been stored properly, I think there is always the chance that a batch of NSW could introduce undesireable pathogens. Even if you have been using it all along.

My .02

 

[toptank]

Emmitt, not I haven't been doing that but haven't for 6 months. Maybe I got some bad water (NSW) From now on I am going to just mix as I once did. I know of people here that have used it for years without any problem but not going to take a change anymore.

I removed the rocks that had the toadstool and Xenia on and cleaned them real well. Going to do another WC this afternoon. The funny thing is that I can not smell it in the tank, just in the sump. But like I said I have nothing in there but the skimmer, pumps, some LR and filter sponges. Everything has been cleaned. I thought maybe something had gotten onto my overflow box and died but even looked there, nothing? Will continue to look. I am down to very few corals now

But not going to add anything for awhile till I get things settled. I guess this afternoon I will take the pumps out of the skimmer and cleaned them.

Barry

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: toptank ]</p>

 

[toptank]

Cleaned the LR and did another water change. I can smell a little ordor but not as bad as when I had that toadstool and Xenia in there. That must have been the problem along with all my clams dying.

The fish are all well and some of the coral are starting to open alittle. Naybe after a few more water changes I will elimate the smell altogeather.

Hopefully we can continue with some good luck for a change. In the past 4 weeks it has been H*** and lost some very nice SPS, LPS and clams.

Barry

Thanks for your replies.

Barry

 

[Henry1]

Toptank,

Don't give up! Don't let this bad patch overwhelm your passion.
It appear that the massive SPS RTN had resulted in a deadly chain of poisoning. SPS slime are known to be toxic, especialy to invertebrates.

For what you are going through, I would do restart. Put all your fish and what could survive with a friend or LFS while thing cycle.
Really felt sorry to see you spending so much energy trying to nib the problem and not making much progress.

Cheers

 

[myreef]

Sorry to hear about your losses Barry. I to have lost several pieces of SPS due to RTN recently. I had the same smell coming just from the sump, not from the top of the tank. I had done nothing new to the tank, just wiped the glass. I lost a clam and a prized table top.

As soon as the I removed the table top, the smell went away. It was huge 7" in diameter and about 5" tall. I have no idea why, nor do most people in regards to RTN. Good luck and hang in there!

 

[toptank]

Hi Andy, I think I got it all out, the smell. Just have a few pieces of Montipora left and a few corals. All fish are well and eating like pigs. It is so upsetting to have a beautiful tank and in a heart beat it's gone. I just hate to see live things die and not counting the hundred of dollars gone. Some of my acros were bought from Steve Tyree, he has some expensive stuff but very nice. I guess I will just stick with some softies and leathers for now. All of my clams are gone, a few I have had for 2 years.

Barry

 

[golfish]

Barry,
Take it a little slower this time. You spent a lot of money on SPS for a tank that was brand new. Your tanks 2 month new then mine, I didn't transfer the 55 in until April (I had to beacuse the Rio burned up)

Try to trade for frags instead of buy whole colonies.


Mark

 

[toptank]

Yes Mark my tank was new but remember I took all my LR and most of the water from my 90 gal and put it in my 180. Yes I did buy a lot of expensive SPS colonies from Steve Tyree.

I am going to let this tank run another 6 months before adding any new acros. Just stick with softies and leathers for now.

We are thinking about buying another townhouse and if we do I will have a room behind the tank that will house everything and a nice size chiller.

Barry

 

[golfish]

Barry, the tank was still new, Just because half the water and LR was from you old tank doesn't make it mature.

No wonder you spent so much $$ on corals. I have been to Steve Tyree's place(the Peice of the reef) I could not bring my self to spend that kind of $$ on SPS. Not when we have other people who have much better deals......Joe Kelly comes to mind.

Have you ever been to Steve Tyree's shop?

[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: golfish ]</p>

 

[toptank]

After the RTN run a few weeks ago and getting all the SPS out that bleeched. I have now looked back at my log. I keep a log on everything I do with this tank from adding stuff, changeing equipment, etc.

I now feel that the Xenia that crashed was what contaminated the water. Just don't know why the Xenia crashed. But talking with a friend of mine that keep the tank out at seaworld said that Xenia will contaminate bad when they crash. The only thing that I started to add Reef Builder to help get my alk up as my reactor wasn't getting it up. After 4 months with the ca reactor I got my ca in the range of 430 460ppm but alk never got up over 8.4 dkh. That is the only thing I did other than buy a colt coral, yellow polyps that previous day. Maybe the colt coral released some slime down stream into the Xenia and cause it to crash. That is what I feel that happened. I have heard that Xenia ( which I had a lot of it) for months and when I fraged some of it to mount to rubble you talk about smell !!!

Barry

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: toptank ]</p>

 

[suckair]

Sure would be nice to know what happened and why! I doubt it was bad NSW. Probably some unknown cantaminage or a cuke exploding..

Good luck! There are many things that can go wrong in a reef..

It sure would be nice to know what the contaminate was to prevent it's future introduction. I have delt with chemical warefare with soft corals and they don't cause anything like this. You could dump in fertalizer and it would not kill your system just give you algae problems.. It was a contaminate of some kind..!

Randall