Lava Rock to Live Rock

[Mouse]

I was just thinking that Lava Rock might actually be good for marine tanks after all. Whenever i have mentioned to people about using lava rock before i have allways been told that it was unsuitable because of the ammount of Iron it contained. After all i suppose its the iron that gives it the red colour. But after reading the analasys of Miracle Mud, it has become apparent that Iron is actually a very usefull thing to have, especially when used to form the basis of a macro algal refugeum. Lava Rock is also very very porus, much more porus than Tufa or Ocean Rock for example. So whats stopping me from using Lava Rock to make live rocks????

im determined to get my 400 gallon tank and not paying for LR would reduce the cost by 1/3rd, there must be another way than Arragocrete.

Any Gurus out there today?

 

[Shoots]

I don't know what the long term results will be but, I started with 90% lava rack and 10% Fugi about 5 months and everything looks good. I did not pick any of the red or tan colored lava rock. I just used the black colored pieces. I paid $1.00 a pound at LFS but you might try a landscaping place for cheaper.

I have been going through the normal algae blooms just like everyone else. I have a 55 gal with 8 corals and 3 fish. I am also using B-ionic whitch is producing good results with the coraline spreading.

So far so good.

 

[DKKA]

Well, there's no telling what kind of impurities will be lurking in any given rock and you may wind up nuking your whole tank.

That being said, I've been using red lava for many years without any problems. I just added a bunch more to my basement prop system to let it become live so that I'll have enough rock when I upgrade to a bigger tank.
Dan

 

[Mouse]

You guys are so cool, cheers, actual expirience. Well theres no better than from the horses mouth. I guess im going to make all the rockwork from scratch, save me a huge ammount of cash.

 

[Brad Ward]

As has been mentioned, there could be problems with impurities in the rock itself that might leach out over time. I would like to mention that after years in this hobby, anytime I have tried to save money on a basic item, I end up spending more money and time to fix it later on. The one thing you will be missing from using dead rock is the life that comes with the live rock from the Ocean. While all live rock is not equal, it does contain items that will most likely become beneficial over time unlike dead rock. Do what you wish, I just thought you might want another viewpoint.

Best of luck,

Brad Ward

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Brad Ward ]</p>

 

[Mouse]

Ahh Brad,

But we know that all of the beneficial organisms can be bought at ISPF, pods, worms, stars and also Garf Grunge would probably provide you with a more diverse sellection of Corraline algie than you could ever get in any single shimpment of LR. Plus No aptasia, No Brisstle worms (Clam lovers), No crabs, No Mantids, No parrasitic Pods, No unidentifyable parasitic worms etc. etc. I think the benefits of LR are probably equal to the evils it houses.

 

[suckair]

This is why you should never purchase that rock! I did and leaned the hard way!


It is very hard and will scratch the hell out of your tank! I had a new 120 get all messed up because of it!

Stay away from that rock.. Screw the cost of rocks.. If you want iron in your system add it!

Randall

 

[Brad Ward]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mouse:
<strong>But we know that all of the beneficial organisms can be bought at ISPF, pods, worms, stars and also Garf Grunge would probably provide you with a more diverse sellection of Corraline algie than you could ever get in any single shimpment of LR.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I forgot to add that it looks like crap too, but that's a different story

. Yes. you could order stuff from all those places and probably spend more than you would if you just got some good fresh live rock in the first place. I would however, have to disagree with your premise that the stuff you order would give you more diversity. I am still waiting after 36 years in the hobby to see any closed system tank that equals the oceans diversity. Again, it's your tank, do what you wish.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

<strong> Plus No aptasia, No Brisstle worms (Clam lovers), No crabs, No Mantids, No parrasitic Pods, No unidentifyable parasitic worms etc. etc. I think the benefits of LR are probably equal to the evils it houses.

</strong>

Bear with me. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. Aiptasia, I know that there are hobbyists that have just had a awful time with these. I have had them in every reef tank I have ever worked on. I have never had one so badly infested that I had to tear it down or lost corals. So I would imagine that there are many more than not with my experience. With over 8000 species of marine annelid worms, there are very few that actually do any damage to any of our tank's inhabitants. Again, I have never had a worm kill anything in my experience. They are scavengers for the almost all part, and if they are found in a clam, it is likely the clam was already dead. Again, some crabs are beneficial. I love that ones that eat algea in my tanks. They are another part of the food chain and don't do any harm as far as I can tell. If I do have one that grows into a 500 pound gorilla, I catch it and put it in a small tank I have for just such an occasion. Mantis shrimp are the same. Some species are basically harmless to things and add to the diversity. I think if you worry about stuff like this, your system will never have the opportunity to really become a complete eco system. That might not be your goal, but it is mine.

Again, Good luck with your system,

Brad Ward

 

[Shoots]

I wouldn't say that Lava rock looks like crap, it is dead but give it 6 months with additives and the coraline algae takes off. After awile you won't be able to tell the difference between the two.

I did add 10% of live rock just to get things started and 1 kit from ISPF. If I did add all live rock I guess I would get more feather dusters etc.. but things are multiplying. I still have gotten Aiptasia and bubble algea from frags at the LFS.

My LFS store is the only one I have heard that has the same Lava Rock for over 6 years. Is there anyone else out there that has been using it for extended length of time?

 

[SPC]

I will agree with Brad on this, the look of it is not to my taste. You will NEVER get lava rock to look like aquacultured rock. If its coralline covered that is a different story, you can get pcs of concrete, coke bottles, etc... to do that.

Steve

 

[Nosmada]

ive had lava rock in my tank for about a year now. i had coraline growing on it before i even added any LR. i also dont dose with anything at all. i have had no major problems with my tank at all except your usual hair algae which an enlarged clean up crew has taken care of.

chris

 

[Mouse]

Thanks for all the info guys, i would just like to add that this proposed method of LR production would be intended to span over a two year pereod or so, this is not something i would recommend to someone starting in the hobby. The system would start as a Fish Only Aquarium and then over the pereod of two years or so would then become a FOWLR system, then i would upgrade the lights and add toys etc to become a full reef system. This method would not be advisable unless it was designed with some other method for controlling biological filtration initially. Its a hell of a trip round the houses, but an alternative none the less.

 

[davelin315]

I have a couple of pieces of red lava rock in my systems, although not much as I am not a big fan of its color in a reef tank. I have never known of any problems caused by the rock, but who knows, maybe I have had some that I didn't know I should blame on the lava rock. As far as it leaching things into the water, as has already been said, most things will leach something, and don't forget also, that many of the islands in the ocean are volcanic (look at Hawaii). Also, I don't think that red volcanic sand beaches kill off invertebrate life because of high iron contents (although I could be wrong on this, it's only an assumption). I think that red lava rock is fine for aquaculturing live rock, I just don't like its looks that much.

 

[B-Man]

I have had red Lava Rock in my tank for over 2 years now. I initially used some smaller pieces to sit in my sand and support my live rock above the sandbed, that way I have very little rock contacting the sand. I have also added some larger pieces in the centre of the rock work where they can hardly be seen but help to add to the total amount of rock. I have never had a problem with it, ie. never had a hair alge outbreak, no mysterious deaths of corals or fish, no cyano...etc. Most of the lava rock is now almost covered with life. I have a red unidentified macro algae growing on some, sponges galore growing on another, Green Star Pylops have covered most of some peices, tube worms all over. It takes time but eventually you won't be able to notice it, unless you know because you put it there. I am not trying to say that you can't tell the difference between actual live rock and the Lava rock, but it certianly is not an eye sore.

Just place the peices in the back of the tank or in the middle of the pile and cover with some live rock and you should never notice it. I have found it a great way to have lots of rock, without spending lots of dollars. Again do this at your own risk, my results may not be typical.

 

[Mouse]

Yet again some very mixed results, thanks for the info again guys. My main reason for beleaving that Lava Rock would be a better basis to form Live Rock than say Tufa is due to the porosity, ultimately creating a grater surface area catering for a larger denitrifying bactereal colony. Where as Tufa seems to be fairly dense and also far more uniform in shape. It does however aid Alkalinity in the same way that Arragonite sand does by disolving to create a balance. Appart from one observation being put forward regarding Lava Rocks unsuitability because of its propensity to scratch glass. But i have used Lava Rock in many FW tanks and never expirienced this problem. On the other hand all of the observations here have been from tanks that still contained LR to begin with, except for Dave who has had the system running for 10 or so years. Anyone else here who can add a horror story to the list with regards to a toxin leaching desaster, speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

[DKKA]

No hooror stories, just a couple tidbits 'o' fun. The last time I bought lava I bought some really large pieces I intend to carve into some sort of really cool archway/cave/reef crest all in one structure. After I carve it it will sit in my prop tub for a year or so until I'm ready to set up a new tank. Who knows if I'll ever do it, but if I do it will be cool.

FWIW, the red lava I've seen isn't nearly as porous as real live rock, or tuffa. I'd recommend using a couple different size masonry bits and drilling them out a bit. Wobble the bits around so the holes are irregularly shaped.

Brad makes some great points and obviously knows what he speaks of. But if you have enough patience, and don't mind the risk, lava can work and look decent. Of course, the real thing looks so much better, but since a large portion of live rock is covered by other rock and corals, I don't mind using a little lava in my tanks.
Dan

 

[Mouse]

Cheers Dan, if you know that Tufa is more porus than Lava Rock then im going to go with that. My intention is to build a huge set of platforms with drilled rocky supports on them. It should look the buisness when its done. I think the majority of the rock will have to be LR though. Thanks Geez.

 

[BReefCase]

One point of clarification is in order here.

The "lava rock" discussed here in this thread as being suitable for use in aquaria is the inexpensive red/brown/black material commonly sold as "lava rock" in pet stores, which is actually a totally man-made, manufactured refractory material. It is made from fired, expanded clay by a process similar to that used to make ceramic tile.

Real lava, as in natural volcanic rock, is totally unsuited to use in aquaria due to leeching of its high mineral content, including iron but especially poisonous sulpher. I would not recommend anyone put natural lava rock in a reef tank unless they first soaked it in salt water for an extended period and then carefully tested the water for releases of toxic or otherwise undesirable substances.

 

[davelin315]

If that is the case, then why is it that volcanic islands can host so much life? I know that in the ocean things get diluted quickly, but wouldn't the concentration be very high around these islands, especially the ones that are active?

 

[Mouse]

Wow Breefcase, so what do you think about Lava Rock compared to Tuffa for base rock Pros & Cons most appreceated. I want to use it to make a support structure and my main prerequisite would be porosity for life and bacterea to live in. But the maulubility of Tuffa seems very good for drilling???