low alk. and ca. with steady use of B-Ionic

[Ben B.]

The tank is a 55g lps tank with a 16g rdp refugium plumbed in. pH is generally between 8.1 and 8.2. For the last few months, I've been adding first 15 ml of B-Ionic 1 and 2, and then 20 (when I put in the refugium) per day. Still, alk hovers around 2.5 meq/l, and calcium at 325-350. I test with an Aquarium Systems alk test and a Seachem Reef Status Calcium kit, if anyone is curious.

After a bit of hunting around, I discovered that word is that one should not add the two parts within about a haf hour of eachother. To be on the safe side, I began splitting additives into morning and evening, (last two weeks). This had no effect whatsoever.

I've also read the posts about using other additives to raise levels, while using the two-parters to keep them stable. Is the consensus that this is the way to go? How do people feel about Kent SuperBuffer and TurboCalcium? Should I add them ALONG with the B-Ionic while I'm trying to get levels up, or should I just switch until things are fixed?

Should I possibly just add MORE B-Ionic (I'm thinking double the dose) per day?

Should I just abandon two-parters? Unfortunately, a calcium reactor is just not an economic option right now. I've been looking into DIY Nillsen reactors...

Sorry so many questions; my last reef was a soft coral/ shroom tank. All I did was drip in Kalk. twice a week or so, and watch them grow.

Thanks for any help in advance,
Ben

 

[randy holmes-farley]

IMO, the answer is simple, add more B-ionic. If your tests are accurate, there's no reson to not add more. As long as it is actually being used up, there's no real limit to how much one can add.

OTOH, you might push up the Ca++ alone, to about 400 ppm, and then resume the B-ionic.

 

[Lefty1]

B-ionic has not worked well for me to raise levels. I use seachem products for alk (reefbuilder) and ca (reef advantage I think - it says to raise calcium on the jar). B-ionic has worked great for me to maintain levels.

Have fun,

RR

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Lefty:

Unless you are being limited by high pH, there simply is nothing more effective than B-ionic at raising levels of Ca++ and alkalinity. If you are pH limited, the newer version of B-ionic largely reduces that problem. The knocks on B-ionic include cost and the typical manual nature of the addition, but from a chemical perspecitve, it can accomplish the job.

Now I'm not saying that B-ionic is better than some other methods (limewater, calcium reactor, other two part systems), and I'm not saying that it will always raise levels if the levels are being held down by some other factor (e.g., low magnesium), but if anything can raise it, B-ionic can as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Ben-
FWIW, I dose 25ml a day into my 37 gallon tank (mostly softies and LPS w/ one medium SPS and dripping with coralline)

Ty

 

[smokin reefer]

Hello Ben, do a search on Alk and Calcium on the forum search. All these questions have been answered before. Good luck.

 

[Chaser]

Hi Ben,

I'm dosing B-ionic with a dosing pump at the rate of 40ml of each part per day. My tank is a 40g with moderate LPS, softies, a clam and a bunch of coralline algae. This seems to keep my levels constant. I drip both into the sump at the same time into different areas. It seems to work for me.

As for those searches, I did them and couldn't find anything useful. Good luck!

 

[Lefty1]

Randy,

Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Any thoughts on dosing more of one component of B-ionic to raise either alk or ca? Like if your alk is going down, add a bunch of the alk b-ionic.

RR

 

[Anonymous]

No reason why you can't--you just run out of one bottle earlier.

Ty

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Lefty:

I suggested that a long time ago to Bob Stark, one of the principles of ESV (Bob used to frequent Fishnet). At the time, he said it was not a good idea, but wouldn't elaborate for fear of giving away too much info about the recipe (there was no competition then, there's lots now).

For the life of me, I can't understand how this could be a bad thing compared to CaCl2 alone or NaHCO3 alone. I'd expect it to be better from an ion imbalance perspective, though of course, still not perfect. Maybe it was just corporate liability care in not recommending something that they had not actually tested themselves.

Nevertheless, he recommended against it, but I'd do it if I needed to. When I use B-ionic, I add the alk component daily, but the Ca++ component only weekly as Ca++ drops very little even when the alk is rapidly used up in a reef tank.

 

[Lefty1]

Right on.

What are your feeling on dosing B-ionic and Kalk?

RR

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Some times of the year (when evaporation is very low, limiting limewater additions) I've had to dose both. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Ben B.]

let's see:

Thanks for all the responses.

smokin reefer, I did search for relevant threads before posting, but there didn't seem to be a consensus. Ah well... I guess if there were ever a consensus on these things, we'd all be selling captive-raised Gonipora.

Randy, can you clarify why I should try raising Ca++ to 400 before continuing a balanced dosing regimen? Am I wrong in feeling that large Ca++ aditions with a (relatively) low alk of 2.5 meq/l might spike pH, and thus precipitate out whatever Ca++ I'm adding? Is there a chemical advantage in bringing up ONE of the levels FIRST? I'm asking because a 350 Ca++ and 2.5 alk level seemed to me to be 'balanced' enough to be brought up simultaneously.

Anemone, I agree, and am going to start pushing the dose for a while, to see what happens. I started last night with 30ml of each component, and figuring on about 60 gal of total water volume (allowing for rock, sand, etc.), am willing to go to about 60 ml/day before I give up in disgust and go to additional additives.

Anyway, the update is that after a 30 ml addition of each part last night and THEN one extra 30 ml dose of the alk part this morning (10 hours later), alk was a significantly better 3 meq/l. Feeling cocky, I then added 30 ml of the Ca++ part, and alk went back to 2.5, while Ca++ was 350. It seems like this last Ca++ dose LOWERED alk. Huh? I thought all it MIGHT do at worst was spike pH, and thus precipitate itself out. Is this understanding flawed?

For now, I'm going to see how much I can push the dose without some sort of major imbalance in Ca++, alk or pH happening. I feel like I'm doing all of this for myself, as my corals are all completely polyped out and happy. Argh...

Ben

 

[Anemone]

Ben,

I'm doing this from memory, but it seems to me that the "start" dosing rate for B-Ionic is 1 ml per 4 gallons, and that the instructions say you can go up to 1 ml per gallon. With your 71 gallons of total water, you're real close to the lower end of the dosing scale. Why not notch it up?

Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

My alk was 1.3 meq/l and calcium was around 380 before B-Ionic.

Now it's 4.0 meq/l and 450 constantly, and my lps and coralline have grown considerably since I began using it. I do around 30ml/day of both in a 75gal system.

Peace,

Chip

 

[randy holmes-farley]

<< Randy, can you clarify why I should try raising Ca++ to 400 before continuing a balanced dosing regimen? Am I wrong in feeling that large Ca++ aditions with a (relatively) low alk of 2.5 meq/l might spike pH, and thus precipitate out whatever Ca++ I'm adding? Is there a chemical advantage in bringing up ONE of the levels FIRST? I'm asking because a 350 Ca++ and 2.5 alk level seemed to me to be 'balanced' enough to be brought up simultaneously.>>

Right, you are wrong about calcium additions causing a pH change. If you add calcium chloride (or one part of B-ionic) there will be no pH change.

OTOH, yes, they are balanced "enough" to bring both up without causing a precipitation event. BUT, they are imbalanced compared to NSW, and adding B-ionic in a balanced form will leave the calcium always low, unless you push the alkalinity to undesirable levels.

IOW, starting from 350 ppm Ca++ and 2.5 meq/L ca++, if you added a balanced mix to raise alkalinity to reasonable levels (say, 3 meq/L), calcium will still be too low (360 ppm), and if you add enough to raise Ca++ to normal levels (410 ppm), alk will be too high (5.5 meq/L).