Garlic? Why not stress coat?
- Thread starter Lefty1
- Start date
randy holmes-farley
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- Location
- Arlington, MA
That presumes three things are true:
1. That garlic actually works
2. That it works by inducing slime production
3. That adding artificial slime on a fish would have the same effect as having the fish produce it's own slime.
It seems highly unlikely that all three are true.
[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Randy Holmes-Farley ]</p>
1. That garlic actually works
2. That it works by inducing slime production
3. That adding artificial slime on a fish would have the same effect as having the fish produce it's own slime.
It seems highly unlikely that all three are true.
[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Randy Holmes-Farley ]</p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SPC:
<strong>Lefty, IMO garlic does for fish what it does for dogs. When dogs ingest garlic it repels fleas to some degree, I think this is what happens with fish and ich.
Steve</strong><hr></blockquote>
Steve,
Have you ever have a dog? and have garlic works for your dogs?
<strong>Lefty, IMO garlic does for fish what it does for dogs. When dogs ingest garlic it repels fleas to some degree, I think this is what happens with fish and ich.
Steve</strong><hr></blockquote>
Steve,
Have you ever have a dog? and have garlic works for your dogs?
Now here we go.
My dogs loves curry - the only food that will make it salivate while waiting.
My curry has a lot of garlic in it.
If I do not treat for fleas then my dogs get fleas.
Garlic does not significantly help reduce fleas on dogs.
QED
My dogs loves curry - the only food that will make it salivate while waiting.
My curry has a lot of garlic in it.
If I do not treat for fleas then my dogs get fleas.
Garlic does not significantly help reduce fleas on dogs.
QED
Randy
In reading your many posts I respect your knowledge on things chemical.
On the garlic issue it appears that you are not convinced.
I, along with the majority who comment on treatment of ich have had success.
I thought our posts might be more acceptable if someone of your stature would consider trying the garlic treatment.
Are you willing to give it a try or can you suggest someone else on this board of your stature?
In reading your many posts I respect your knowledge on things chemical.
On the garlic issue it appears that you are not convinced.
I, along with the majority who comment on treatment of ich have had success.
I thought our posts might be more acceptable if someone of your stature would consider trying the garlic treatment.
Are you willing to give it a try or can you suggest someone else on this board of your stature?
Naesco,
It seems you have misunderstood something somewhere along the line. There is not, and never has been anything unacceptable about you or anyone else posting about success with garlic. It works sometimes, but "sometimes" is hardly an acceptable mode of treatement for such valuable and many times very delicate animals. I've used it several times to nip an infection in the bud as it were. As someone who's been keeping fish for 15 years or so I can tell you that garlic is not the most effective thing for curing ich. In fact, on delicate fish with advanced infestastions it's effectiveness is near zero. Now, I can relate plenty of stories about damsels, clownfish, groupers, triggers, etc that have been seemingly cured by feeding garlic. Most of these were treated early on. Others will relate stories of other species whith which garlic did the trick. Show me 10 stories however of a powder blue tang, or an emporer angel with an advanced case of ich that was cured with garlic and I will show you at least 9 stories that are complete BS.
In seems to work somewhat well as a preventitive measure as Matt has indicated above.
Best of luck.
Jim
It seems you have misunderstood something somewhere along the line. There is not, and never has been anything unacceptable about you or anyone else posting about success with garlic. It works sometimes, but "sometimes" is hardly an acceptable mode of treatement for such valuable and many times very delicate animals. I've used it several times to nip an infection in the bud as it were. As someone who's been keeping fish for 15 years or so I can tell you that garlic is not the most effective thing for curing ich. In fact, on delicate fish with advanced infestastions it's effectiveness is near zero. Now, I can relate plenty of stories about damsels, clownfish, groupers, triggers, etc that have been seemingly cured by feeding garlic. Most of these were treated early on. Others will relate stories of other species whith which garlic did the trick. Show me 10 stories however of a powder blue tang, or an emporer angel with an advanced case of ich that was cured with garlic and I will show you at least 9 stories that are complete BS.
In seems to work somewhat well as a preventitive measure as Matt has indicated above.
Best of luck.
Jim
My one experience with cryptocarian and garlic was success, but I did not do a controlled experiment. I have heard (and this at least is consitant with what I did) that water-soluble extract, soaked into the food, works the best. One thing is clear; the fish eat it more vigorously. It is entirely possible that this alone is what helps. I used Kyolic brand garlic extract, which is water soluble.
The most definitive treatment is 3 weeks at a salinity of 1.009 exactly.
Copper sulphate has been used with varying degrees of success. The main problem is that it isn't very soluble above about pH 7 or so, and of course it contaminates everything and kills all invertibrates. I have read that it works by inducing copious amounts of slime, which causes the parasites to be shed, and then the copper kills them during the reproductive phase of their life cycle.
I have not had any success with garlic and dog ticks. My dog fortunately has few if any fleas.
The main problem is that you really need to do controlled experiments to evaluate efficacy, and if you are treating a fish disease, presumably you want to treat all your fish, not just the experimental group.
The most definitive treatment is 3 weeks at a salinity of 1.009 exactly.
Copper sulphate has been used with varying degrees of success. The main problem is that it isn't very soluble above about pH 7 or so, and of course it contaminates everything and kills all invertibrates. I have read that it works by inducing copious amounts of slime, which causes the parasites to be shed, and then the copper kills them during the reproductive phase of their life cycle.
I have not had any success with garlic and dog ticks. My dog fortunately has few if any fleas.
The main problem is that you really need to do controlled experiments to evaluate efficacy, and if you are treating a fish disease, presumably you want to treat all your fish, not just the experimental group.
I agree with everything you say.
As a preventative and for an initial infestation, I have seen garlic work and others have as well.
I would not risk using garlic alone for a serious infection as in many cases the fish is not eating and beyond hope for traditional treatments as well. Unless of course you can't catch it in which case you hope for success with the seriously infected fish or at a minimum protection for the others in the tank.
My concern is that garlic is portrayed by some as a kind of snake oil.
For that reason I ask reputable reefers to test it out themselves and report the success or failure.
If we all could say that garlic IS a sucessful preventative or successful mild conditions, many reefers would benefit from it use.
As a preventative and for an initial infestation, I have seen garlic work and others have as well.
I would not risk using garlic alone for a serious infection as in many cases the fish is not eating and beyond hope for traditional treatments as well. Unless of course you can't catch it in which case you hope for success with the seriously infected fish or at a minimum protection for the others in the tank.
My concern is that garlic is portrayed by some as a kind of snake oil.
For that reason I ask reputable reefers to test it out themselves and report the success or failure.
If we all could say that garlic IS a sucessful preventative or successful mild conditions, many reefers would benefit from it use.
I have talked at length with the person that first popularized garlic as a means of treating ich. Even they use hyposalinity with full-blown infections. It hasn’t been proven, but I believe garlic’s effects on ich are largely as a repellent. I do not think that it increases slim production or that increased slim production would cure ich. I disagree about stress coat. The polymer in stress coat actually adheres to the fish, especially where there is exposed tissue such as an injury. This is important to replace a barrier that helps the fish maintain osmotic and hydromineral balance. It is also helpful in preventing opportunistic bacteria from invading a wound, scratch or other compromise in the mucus/scale/skin barrier.BTW, I don't endorse many products.
Terry B
Terry B
Minh, yes I have a dog and I use Frontline for fleas. If you will notice I said "to some degree" in my post. Before the new flea controls came out, 10 to 15 years ago, I had a couple of Vets tell me to crush up garlic in my dogs food to help repel fleas. Did it work? It seemed to but of course that would be all subjective.
Steve
Steve
I did get a pretty bad infestation of ich recently. My Yellow tang had hundreds of cysts on it. I tried feeding him food soaked in garlic extract, this didnt help at all. All three fish in the tank were affected. I then got Stop Parisites by Chem Marine, this stuff smelled terrible and looked terrible
It didnt work at all. Then I got Ruby Reefs Kick Ich, this stuff is amazing, all the fish recovered 100%. Any one looking for a reef safe (I used it in my sps reef)cure for Ich get Ruby Reefs Kick Ich. It has the the contents right on the bottle and looks like water. HTH
To add to the dog comments. The biggest advantage to giving garlic to dogs is actually for your grass. It lowers the ammonia content in their urine and pervents it from killing/burning your grass. My dogs get garlic every morning.
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roll joints
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roll joints
In our experience, the use of garlic soaked foods improves feeding response and helps reduce the occurance of parasites like cryptocaryon.
It does not however, have much effect on fishes that are already affected with ich.
I have seen no evidence it has any effect on the slime coat.
[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
It does not however, have much effect on fishes that are already affected with ich.
I have seen no evidence it has any effect on the slime coat.
[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
I think at this point it is fairly clear that water soluble garlic extract does not appear to do any immediate, noticable harm, and there are at the very least highly suggested annecdotal reports that it works. I am inclined to agree with TerryB on this one -- if the ich infection is serious enough, hyposalinity is pretty definitive.
I have "cured" ich and yellow-tang-black-spot planeria infestations by doing water changes and improving the living conditions in the past. I have also heard of people "curing" ich by tossing an infected fish into a stable reef tank with high quality conditions. "Remission" is probably a better word, since it is possible that the parasite still lurks, but who cares as long as the disease is gotten rid of.
I have also heard good things about 5-nitroimidazole, the ingredient in kich ich and no ich, but again I don't know if people have done controlled experiments.
I have "cured" ich and yellow-tang-black-spot planeria infestations by doing water changes and improving the living conditions in the past. I have also heard of people "curing" ich by tossing an infected fish into a stable reef tank with high quality conditions. "Remission" is probably a better word, since it is possible that the parasite still lurks, but who cares as long as the disease is gotten rid of.
I have also heard good things about 5-nitroimidazole, the ingredient in kich ich and no ich, but again I don't know if people have done controlled experiments.
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