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davelin315

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Just wanted to share my dismay and discourage people from frequenting bad stores. I went into one today (Aquazotic II in Niles, IL) that always had marine stuff, not in the best condition, but also not in the worst either, probably on the lower end of average (I have some pretty great stores in the area). Anyway, they apparently changed ownership, and are redoing their salt section. In the back, they had a dead blue dot stingray that obviously died a tortured death (it was contorted and on its back, and if it was a natural death, it wouldn't be like that). I told an employee that his blue dot was dead, and he said "Yeah, that's all salt back there" and then I got a little mad and told him I said they had killed their ray. The store also had a feeder goldfish tank in which most of the feeders were dead and floating, and the water was milky white. In a large freshwater display tank, they had a set up for small freshwater rays, and besides the rays, they had a dive bag with around 200 large feeder goldfish (again, probably 10% were dead, another 20% on their way) suspended in it. They also had a large flat acrylic display, filled mostly with anemones (a pathetic light fixture was suspended above it, and it didn't even illuminate the display boxes any more than the light from the window), but one chamber had several large dead comet goldfish (did they think that goldfish are saltwater?), another had a decaying mass of something, I'm not sure what it was, and then there was what was probably once a beautiful piece of open brain coral that was completely receded from the edges, with several of its "mouths" gaping wide open. I asked them if I could buy it and save it, and the guy who had asked me if I needed help before (the one I told about the dead ray) said that he needed to get their salt guy. I offered him a buck, and he gave it to me. He said he was gone from there as of next week as he was disgusted by what they had done to the tanks and the stock (the new owners). I'm one to always hunt for deals (used to go to this great place that was in a barn and buy her "feeder" corals for $5-$10, injured ones she fed to difficult butterflies, angels, etc. that looked incredibly healthy to me), but this was too much even for a dedicated bargain hunter/coral salvager. I'm not going back to a store like that again (well, at least not that one) unless they do a complete turn around.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me vent, as a hobbyist, it really pisses me off that stores can kill their stock like that and continue to purchase difficult species.

By the way, when I left 10 minutes later, the dead ray was still in the tank. For the sake of the rest of their fish, I hope it released some toxins into the water, or at least quickly fouled the system, and basically euthanized the rest of the inhabitants, who were probably dying slow deaths.
 
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Anonymous

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Don't get me started...
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Carpentersreef

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Davelin,

Don't you wish you could just call the police in on situations like that? I've been in stores like that, and I wish i could just go in with some big containers and a legal document that entitled me to legally confiscate all abused animals.

I already donate monthly to the World Wildlife Federation, but you almost think it would be useful to stand outside a store like that with a sandwich board.

Mitch
 
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Anonymous

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Actually, Carpentersreef, we had a large petstore/fish store here that used to sell all kinds of exotic animals - monkeys, those cats...what are they - neat looking, but wild animals that attack - I don't think they were ocelots, I don't know, something like that.

People protested and the store closed. But the store was way out of hand and they were cute fuzzy things that people cared about, not fish that people don't know enough to care about...
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Carpentersreef

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Hi fellow loser (tanggirl), (re MACNA)

I'm gald to hear that, I actually reported a petstore for their abuse of a Hyacinth Macaw, and it WAS acted apon by local authorities. It just seems to me that petstores, paying low wages as they do, cannot possibly get quality help.
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It's really too bad.

Mitch
 

davelin315

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Pet stores can easily get qualified help IMO. Think of the possibilities if you had the spare time (and I know some of us do, I did until my baby arrived) - wholesale prices on whatever you wanted to order! Equipment, livestock! I'm a prosecutor and was working the on call night shift last summer and got a job at a fish store (good one, too) but my assignment changed and I couldn't take the job. I'm on that shift again, but like I said, my baby happily takes up my free time.
 

Carpentersreef

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Hi Dave,
I hope this is going to remain a friendly post, but as a petstore owner, how would you advertise for new help? You are obviously highly educated, and while I don't want to know what the pay was, how many qualified people are willing to spend their time in a petstore, with an owner that may or may not have the animals' best interestes in mind, when they could be spending it on their own tanks or own family?
As far as getting wholesale prices, once you have your tank setup, what else do you need to buy, substantially?

Mitch
 

davelin315

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No flaming here either (the last post did sound kind of negative, didn't it? sorry, didn't mean it that way).

When I mentioned wholesale, it includes wholesale on livestock, and who doesn't want wall to wall tanks in their house?
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And, most people are always battling to upgrade their equipment, or move to a bigger tank, or diversify, etc.

Anyway, the pay was minimum wage (oops, you didn't want to know that). I don't know how one would advertise for qualified help, but having a good store to begin with would be a step in the right direction. You can attract a good clientele with a good store, and then put up a sign. From the age post on here, there are a lot of students and a lot of kids out there who know a lot more about reef tanks and fish than I know after being a hobbyist for 10+ years, and everyone knows that students are always broke (especially the ones that blow their cash on reef stuff!).

As far as spending time on their own tanks and their family, like I said, I now concentrate more on my little baby girl, so doing it would not be an interest of mine anymore. However, like I said above, it's a nice way to get cheap stuff, maintain the quality of the industry, and get some spare cash to get some more cheap stuff. As far as battling a bad owner, I don't know how you'd do that, but the stores I would apply to would be better more upscale ones, or would rapidly turn into them once I was there (I would hope).
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Carpentersreef

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Hi Dave,
Here we are with the population 10/1 gap.eh? (Canada/U.S)
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I have no idea how big Park Ridge, or Illonois is, for that matter, but I consider myself lucky to have 1 quality LFS here - and Calgary is large as far as Canada goes! (we almost have a population of 1 million)

Congrats on your baby girl BTW!

I still find it amazing that you can even get SW corals in the Canadian praries!
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Mitch
 

jmosmc

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just a thought. what difference does it make how much the employees make per hour, it is the responcibility of the store owner to make sure that the animals are not subjected to adverse conditions. any business is bottom line, but really if you are killing yor livestock how much money are you throughing down the toilet.

i hope that we don't justify killing animals by quoting the bottom line.
 

CHL

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Speaking of working at LFS, as matter of fact, I was still a LFS employee 7 months ago. I can recall an incident where a customer demanded a refund on their goldfish, because it had caught disease from their poor water quality. We could only offer an exchange at that circumstance. The customer got mad, took the replacement gold fish (one of the best looking one we could find), said he doesn't want that one and proceeded to throw it on the floor and stomped on it and walked out of the door.

Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it.....
Nevertheless, it was a goldfish and not an expensive salt water fish, but his ethics were questionable.
 

davelin315

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Just a quick update on the coral I bought there. It's beginning to flesh out again, and the mouths have all gone back to normal. It's not receding any further, and looks like it may be reattching itself in some of the less stressed places.
 
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Anonymous

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You folks who are hobbyiests will soon have an easier way to know of the good stores from the bad ones.

AMDA will soon begin it's Platinum program. Platinum stores will be stores that have been actually physically inspected by representatives of AMDA and are actually following the AMDA standards and practices. Also most Platinum stores will also be MAC certified. I strongly suggest you support MAC and purchase MAC certified fish and patronize AMDA and MAC certified stores, this will ensure that you get the highest quality, most humanly treated animals in the industry.

If your local LFS does not know about AMDA and MAC please strongly encourage them to join and participate.

American Marinelife Dealer's Association

<A HREF="http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/" TARGET=_blank>
Marine Aquarium Council</A>
 

davelin315

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That is great news Tom. It is nice to have an agency that will act as a Better Business Bureau for Marine Aquarists. It is very depressing to go to stores where the livestock is mistreated and in horrible condition. Most people only care when there are fur or feathers involved, but scales and no backbones should be considered too!
 

monkeyboy

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That really is not cool, you'd think that when they lost enough money on livestock they'd stop...

Although the dead feeders in the tank during business hours was inexcusable, in the summer feeder goldfish usually arrive at the store like goldfish soup, even if there is only 10% dead the rest are sure to follow. Nothing worse than scooping a whole tank of dead goldfish...

MickAv8r: I wasn't aware of such an orgaization, i'll definitely make sure that our store joins.
 

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