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Anonymous
Guest
http://www.imamarinelife.org/environ01.htm
check it out
check it out
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Anonymous
Guest
Wow..........just think it was only a few weeks ago that I was told by many replies that the collectors were not the problem and that cyanide fishing was not even that common anymore...........we need to educate the private tank owners everyone said. By the looks of the references in the article I would say that if this was happening in 1998 it is still going on now!!!!!
You cannot fix a problem unless you attack the source..........if you have a tumor in your arm that is likely to spread and kill you, make a choice.......lose the arm or lose it all. Simple
You cannot fix a problem unless you attack the source..........if you have a tumor in your arm that is likely to spread and kill you, make a choice.......lose the arm or lose it all. Simple
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Anonymous
Guest
Recent? Sorry. Read the text.
It cites confirmed cyanide use "from the 60's". The map(!) points out confirmed use w/o dates --no quantifiable data. The reference to cyanide caught aquarium ornamentals (from specifically only the Philippines) is dated only by "from the 1960's". My point? Don't claim it is recent data. It's recently published, but it specifies only old data where aquarium ornamentals are specifically associated. The "recent" demand is always described as being of a foodsource nature --the tenor adopted throughout the rest of the article.
And please, before you start, we've WORKED with IMA, OVI and others. Cyanide use is evil and it IS there. It IS NOT common anymore "in the Philippines", I said. It remains nevertheless in the region for both the hobbyist and gourmet end users.
Even w/o the reef hobby, it would be there. Asian cultures place great value on fresh/live food items --and groupers and wrasses are kings of the banquet table --hence the photo of that humphead 'Napoleon' wrasse. Even w/o cyanide use, this reef-livestock carnage would inexcusably go on in LFS basins and (perhaps even moreso) in ignorant hobbyists' tanks.
Since you failed to absorb my simple point then, saltydog, I will repeat:
This rampant mortality/overcollection/overpurchasing is a problem that must be attacked across the board, not by focusing on any one end --particularly the one farthest from home.
Nothing you do or say will affect idiotic collection methods a fraction as much as what I and worthier others work hard to do day in day out here towards LOCAL EDUCATION. And nothing I do or say affects US hobbyist/LFS ignorance a fraction as much as what you and worthier others could do there day in day out. Activists here can't do poop unless activism in the US is dead --or playing blind in favor of foreigners to blame. Read the text and you know we're working hard in the Philippines.
Rage if you must, but if you're too busy raging at distant dragons, you'll never get around to slaying the worm within.
Your simple analogy of "a source" to be cut off exposes you to charges of incapability of perceiving a feedbacking, multidirectional dynamic. That would surprise me, but if you can only think in such unidirectional, linear terms then maybe its best that you keep raging away, and leave the task of ending this horror to others.
[This message has been edited by horge (edited 22 February 2000).]
It cites confirmed cyanide use "from the 60's". The map(!) points out confirmed use w/o dates --no quantifiable data. The reference to cyanide caught aquarium ornamentals (from specifically only the Philippines) is dated only by "from the 1960's". My point? Don't claim it is recent data. It's recently published, but it specifies only old data where aquarium ornamentals are specifically associated. The "recent" demand is always described as being of a foodsource nature --the tenor adopted throughout the rest of the article.
And please, before you start, we've WORKED with IMA, OVI and others. Cyanide use is evil and it IS there. It IS NOT common anymore "in the Philippines", I said. It remains nevertheless in the region for both the hobbyist and gourmet end users.
Even w/o the reef hobby, it would be there. Asian cultures place great value on fresh/live food items --and groupers and wrasses are kings of the banquet table --hence the photo of that humphead 'Napoleon' wrasse. Even w/o cyanide use, this reef-livestock carnage would inexcusably go on in LFS basins and (perhaps even moreso) in ignorant hobbyists' tanks.
Since you failed to absorb my simple point then, saltydog, I will repeat:
This rampant mortality/overcollection/overpurchasing is a problem that must be attacked across the board, not by focusing on any one end --particularly the one farthest from home.
Nothing you do or say will affect idiotic collection methods a fraction as much as what I and worthier others work hard to do day in day out here towards LOCAL EDUCATION. And nothing I do or say affects US hobbyist/LFS ignorance a fraction as much as what you and worthier others could do there day in day out. Activists here can't do poop unless activism in the US is dead --or playing blind in favor of foreigners to blame. Read the text and you know we're working hard in the Philippines.
Rage if you must, but if you're too busy raging at distant dragons, you'll never get around to slaying the worm within.
Your simple analogy of "a source" to be cut off exposes you to charges of incapability of perceiving a feedbacking, multidirectional dynamic. That would surprise me, but if you can only think in such unidirectional, linear terms then maybe its best that you keep raging away, and leave the task of ending this horror to others.
[This message has been edited by horge (edited 22 February 2000).]
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Anonymous
Guest
yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda
Please explain to me how STRICTLY ENFORCED collection laws that would include a staggering fine for violations would not solve the problem???? Make collection a venture SO expensive that only fat cat corporations could afford permits and eliminate the mom and pop little dingy collectors all together!! Before you start screaming about economy and stuff......let the corporations hire the locals to work for them........knowing they are responsible for the $$$$$ of all fines they will make it clear to the workers that improper proceedures will not be tolerated. Work by the law or don't work.....period.
How does that not solve the problem?????
I respect your dedication, I really do please know that, but if you are placing your faith in the hands of the general population.........you are in for a HUGE letdown. Locals don't want education, they want 30 yellow tangs at the LFS so when they kill the one they have because they haven't checked the tank in a month they can just get another one that looks just like him.
Sad.....but true. That is why you cannot address those people.........they will not listen, their are roughly 1500 people on this forum and yes they will all listen and do what they can to help out but that leaves countless thousands who don't give a crap about if a fish or coral lives or dies because they have the money and the LFS has a replacement waiting for them. You must remove the supply from these people and until you do they will just keep buying and buying until they the last one is gone.
If you think this won't happen I encourage you to read up on all the species on earth to become extinct and see how many humans are directly responsible for.
People hunt tigers and gorillas into near extinction just because they think the claws and teeth will give them an extra 2 minutes in the sack with a lady and others cut the fins off sharks and throw the live body back in the water just to make soup!!!!! These are the people you want to educate into not buying an anemone for $5 at the LFS. Please.
Like I said........sad but true.
Please explain to me how STRICTLY ENFORCED collection laws that would include a staggering fine for violations would not solve the problem???? Make collection a venture SO expensive that only fat cat corporations could afford permits and eliminate the mom and pop little dingy collectors all together!! Before you start screaming about economy and stuff......let the corporations hire the locals to work for them........knowing they are responsible for the $$$$$ of all fines they will make it clear to the workers that improper proceedures will not be tolerated. Work by the law or don't work.....period.
How does that not solve the problem?????
I respect your dedication, I really do please know that, but if you are placing your faith in the hands of the general population.........you are in for a HUGE letdown. Locals don't want education, they want 30 yellow tangs at the LFS so when they kill the one they have because they haven't checked the tank in a month they can just get another one that looks just like him.
Sad.....but true. That is why you cannot address those people.........they will not listen, their are roughly 1500 people on this forum and yes they will all listen and do what they can to help out but that leaves countless thousands who don't give a crap about if a fish or coral lives or dies because they have the money and the LFS has a replacement waiting for them. You must remove the supply from these people and until you do they will just keep buying and buying until they the last one is gone.
If you think this won't happen I encourage you to read up on all the species on earth to become extinct and see how many humans are directly responsible for.
People hunt tigers and gorillas into near extinction just because they think the claws and teeth will give them an extra 2 minutes in the sack with a lady and others cut the fins off sharks and throw the live body back in the water just to make soup!!!!! These are the people you want to educate into not buying an anemone for $5 at the LFS. Please.
Like I said........sad but true.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Salty Dog:
You still think a ban isn't part of the plan. Read that articleand know our efforts effect a technical ban. Live coral export from here is illegal. Ornamentals export is down by over 30% in ten years. But a ban remains merely part of any solution.
You used the word STRICTLY ENFORCED when speaking of a ban. Talk is cheap. I don't think you even know where much of the livestock is coming from. Are you honest enough to admit that?
Those poachers in the South China Sea, harvesting anemones and fishes with cyanide, breaking corals for your reef tanks--they intrude even into Malaysian, Vietnamese and Philippine waters.
There is a standing ban and our Navy is hard put rounding that horde up. China claims the entire sea is theirs. The UN calls it international waters. Your U.S. Seventh Fleet, if it had the authority, couldn't police that expanse of reef-blessed water for small fishermen. Neither can the Chinese, or the poachers would be target practice.
You seem unaware of what it would take to pass your proposed IB, and of how to enforce it. I base my take on hands-on experience with obfuscant Senate SC's, stubborn collectors, and working despite the penalties towards propagation, all with or without NGO's over the past two decades-plus.
Look to your crime rates. If the community at large is indifferent (--hostile even,) law enforcers will fail. That is why I say you, educate the general community to support any ban and enforcement or it will fail.
Civil libertarians gagged, government enforcement still cannot reach into every living room with space for a reef tank, nor into every package shipped in. I feel PRIVATE enforcement spurred by the education you scorn, is the best deal in town to support government efforts.
Would you wave away the difficulties in realizing a ban with the wand of 'if there's a will it can be done', and yet deny the same 'out' to the issue of educating the general public? I use the wand on both issues, and I have something to show for it.
With two sovereign governments, over a hundred local authorities, with collectors and fellow reefers, I have walked the walk, Salty Dog --that's what I talk. It is anything ELSE that is cheap yada.
You still think a ban isn't part of the plan. Read that articleand know our efforts effect a technical ban. Live coral export from here is illegal. Ornamentals export is down by over 30% in ten years. But a ban remains merely part of any solution.
You used the word STRICTLY ENFORCED when speaking of a ban. Talk is cheap. I don't think you even know where much of the livestock is coming from. Are you honest enough to admit that?
Those poachers in the South China Sea, harvesting anemones and fishes with cyanide, breaking corals for your reef tanks--they intrude even into Malaysian, Vietnamese and Philippine waters.
There is a standing ban and our Navy is hard put rounding that horde up. China claims the entire sea is theirs. The UN calls it international waters. Your U.S. Seventh Fleet, if it had the authority, couldn't police that expanse of reef-blessed water for small fishermen. Neither can the Chinese, or the poachers would be target practice.
You seem unaware of what it would take to pass your proposed IB, and of how to enforce it. I base my take on hands-on experience with obfuscant Senate SC's, stubborn collectors, and working despite the penalties towards propagation, all with or without NGO's over the past two decades-plus.
Look to your crime rates. If the community at large is indifferent (--hostile even,) law enforcers will fail. That is why I say you, educate the general community to support any ban and enforcement or it will fail.
Civil libertarians gagged, government enforcement still cannot reach into every living room with space for a reef tank, nor into every package shipped in. I feel PRIVATE enforcement spurred by the education you scorn, is the best deal in town to support government efforts.
Would you wave away the difficulties in realizing a ban with the wand of 'if there's a will it can be done', and yet deny the same 'out' to the issue of educating the general public? I use the wand on both issues, and I have something to show for it.
With two sovereign governments, over a hundred local authorities, with collectors and fellow reefers, I have walked the walk, Salty Dog --that's what I talk. It is anything ELSE that is cheap yada.
A
Anonymous
Guest
You misunderstand my comments.......I am on your side!! I do the best I can to help educate private owners and new members of the hobby. When I hear a LFS telling someone to do something that will end in disaster, I speak up....no matter if they toss me out never to return. I applaud your efforts and am proud to say that people like you still exist in our hobby. Without the dedication of someone like yourself combined with Government assistence we could not reach any goals for the future. Unfortunately my life does not allow me the time to dedicate myself to this cause on your level........I wish I could help more then I do. My astronomical student loan however keeps my priorities straight. I must work A LOT or be in serious financial trouble. ANYWAY..........I am just saying that in my opinion we are addressing the problem incorrectly.....that's all. You don't have to agree with me but please don't imply that I don't care about the reefs and don't "walk the walk" I have spent the last 13 years in and out of every LFS from Western NY to Iowa.....ok maybe not EVERY one but quite a few that's for sure and I see the same attitudes and lack of interest today as I did when I started. I just don't have the faith in the public to believe they will all get a conscience over night and run out to buy reef books to read every day. It will not happen......IMO. People don't care about the animals they keep......mostly. A lot of people like us here at this forum however care a great deal!!!! We are the minorities. Please don't take my comments the wrong way......I think what you are doing is GREAT and I hope you get the credit you deserve from everyone who reads this. I hope you prove me wrong and solve the problem we have today but if you are depending on the good nature of the public I think you are destined to fail....IMO.
Just how I feel....I hope I am wrong!!!!
Just how I feel....I hope I am wrong!!!!
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Anonymous
Guest
There's so much more to the issue here. We all agree that cyanide fishing is abhorrent. But there are two kinds of people who use cyanide- those who are using it because they are making a fast buck with it, and those who are using it as a necesary tool to feed their families. Either way, neither of them is going to stop readily.
Something else to think about- how can we identify cyanide collected organisms? Just because the label says "cyanide-free" doesn't mean it is....
------------------
-Kevin T, Your Friendly Neighborhood Op
( Chucker's views are not necessarily those of reefs.org... or maybe they are
)
Something else to think about- how can we identify cyanide collected organisms? Just because the label says "cyanide-free" doesn't mean it is....
------------------
-Kevin T, Your Friendly Neighborhood Op
( Chucker's views are not necessarily those of reefs.org... or maybe they are
)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ion specific probes were a bust last year, Kevin/Chucker, and I'm clueless about new approaches. The typical fish excretes the poison within 48 hours anyway. I'd go with feeding and observing the results. Heavily poisoned fish die soon after. Harder to carry out than the probe-thingy, I know.
That's part of my point anyway-- even if there was a dependable test, you can only check random samples (easy to get around that), and it doesn't address the age-old problem of smuggling (technical or outright).
My point was to reduce mortality rates in home aquaria --not preach gospel or morality to reefers. Fewer deaths, fewer purchases. While we're at it, I'd love to learn more about the ecopnomics of US LFS, as they stand to lose the most through reform.
Can someone give me the retail prices-per-sizes for these typical exports, posted with collecting-fisherman's incomes:
Chromis viridis (@01 cents US 3cm SL)
Amphiprion ocellaris (@02 cents US 2cm SL)
Zebrasoma flavescens (@09 cents US 3cm SL)
Heteractis magnifica (@85 cents US *3.5cm CD)
Stichodactyla gigantea (@45 cents US *3.5cm CD)
Macrodactyla doreensis (@25 cents US *3.5cm CD)
*CD=contracted diameter--I know this is a fairly nebulous measure given the plastic morphology concerned
Just looking for data. If you're concerned about burdening/digressing form this...this remarkable thread, please send it to my e-mail addy above (or [email protected].)
horge
[This message has been edited by horge (edited 23 February 2000).]
That's part of my point anyway-- even if there was a dependable test, you can only check random samples (easy to get around that), and it doesn't address the age-old problem of smuggling (technical or outright).
My point was to reduce mortality rates in home aquaria --not preach gospel or morality to reefers. Fewer deaths, fewer purchases. While we're at it, I'd love to learn more about the ecopnomics of US LFS, as they stand to lose the most through reform.
Can someone give me the retail prices-per-sizes for these typical exports, posted with collecting-fisherman's incomes:
Chromis viridis (@01 cents US 3cm SL)
Amphiprion ocellaris (@02 cents US 2cm SL)
Zebrasoma flavescens (@09 cents US 3cm SL)
Heteractis magnifica (@85 cents US *3.5cm CD)
Stichodactyla gigantea (@45 cents US *3.5cm CD)
Macrodactyla doreensis (@25 cents US *3.5cm CD)
*CD=contracted diameter--I know this is a fairly nebulous measure given the plastic morphology concerned
Just looking for data. If you're concerned about burdening/digressing form this...this remarkable thread, please send it to my e-mail addy above (or [email protected].)
horge
[This message has been edited by horge (edited 23 February 2000).]
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Anonymous
Guest
Here's some retail prices for ya horge (note: these are an 'average'):
Chromis viridis: $2-$5
Amphiprion ocellaris: $10-$15
Zebrasoma flavescens: $10-$15
Heteractis magnifica: $30-$40
Stichodactyla gigantea: $30-$50
Macrodactyla doreensis: $20-$40
------------------
E >< () !} !_! S
"So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems,... And God saw that it was good."
(Genesis 1:21)
Chromis viridis: $2-$5
Amphiprion ocellaris: $10-$15
Zebrasoma flavescens: $10-$15
Heteractis magnifica: $30-$40
Stichodactyla gigantea: $30-$50
Macrodactyla doreensis: $20-$40
------------------
E >< () !} !_! S
"So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems,... And God saw that it was good."
(Genesis 1:21)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Let's keep this thread going. We can learn a lot about our hobby from this one!
Cheers
James Wiseman
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Reefs.org Channel Operator
Cheers
James Wiseman
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Reefs.org Channel Operator
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Anonymous
Guest
I can't believe I just read an OP suggesting that a thread that I am involved with be kept alive so we can learn.
I'm so proud
I'm so proud
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Anonymous
Guest
I had thought MO prices on the web (including S/H) were a HIGHER exception in US reef commerce (thanks EXODUS). Even then I don't think anyone is getting rich except the large-volume shippers (unless the eximporter-claimed transit mortalities are exaggerated).
Could MO (as the above figures lead me to suspect) be killing off a lot of sm.-med. LFS? If so that will shift retail thinking toward economies of scale: increased volume of harvest/sale to cover ever-lower unit profit. That'll only widen the gulf between propagated and harvested, price wise.
Perhaps there's another opportunity there for US hobbyists to proactively involve themselves. They could support the better LFS over mass-volume MO. It may --in a small way-- buffer prices against slide, and harvest rates against ballooning.
[This message has been edited by horge (edited 24 February 2000).]
Could MO (as the above figures lead me to suspect) be killing off a lot of sm.-med. LFS? If so that will shift retail thinking toward economies of scale: increased volume of harvest/sale to cover ever-lower unit profit. That'll only widen the gulf between propagated and harvested, price wise.
Perhaps there's another opportunity there for US hobbyists to proactively involve themselves. They could support the better LFS over mass-volume MO. It may --in a small way-- buffer prices against slide, and harvest rates against ballooning.
[This message has been edited by horge (edited 24 February 2000).]
A
Anonymous
Guest
Perhaps there's another opportunity there for US hobbyists to proactively involve themselves. They could support the better LFS over mass-volume MO. It may --in a small way-- buffer prices against slide, and harvest rates against ballooning.
They could..........but they won't
All they want is a fish.....not a lecture
SAD
They could..........but they won't
All they want is a fish.....not a lecture
SAD
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Anonymous
Guest
SaltyDog:
I am not unfamiliar with fatigue.
I wish you all and this board well, and hope you can all continue to exchange and develop ideas.
I am not unfamiliar with fatigue.
I wish you all and this board well, and hope you can all continue to exchange and develop ideas.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Horge,
Yes, those are lfs prices, which tend to be HIGHER than internet MO. Although, mail order livestock is not a huge market (yet) although it is big.
I would estimate that it is about 20% while LFS is still 80% Also, a lot of MO livestock is either Farm Raised clams, or Captive frags.
FYI, farm raised frags from the solomons retail online for around $20-25 US, while I believe the farming women get around $.30 each, which is actually a pretty good wage if you live in the solomons. Phillipines may be different.
I would hate to see the amount of coral imports go up. Recent data I have seen on another list actually showed coral imports down for 1999, but I have seen conflicting info there, to say the least.
Interesting discussion certainly.
James Wiseman
------------------
Reefs.org Channel Operator
Yes, those are lfs prices, which tend to be HIGHER than internet MO. Although, mail order livestock is not a huge market (yet) although it is big.
I would estimate that it is about 20% while LFS is still 80% Also, a lot of MO livestock is either Farm Raised clams, or Captive frags.
FYI, farm raised frags from the solomons retail online for around $20-25 US, while I believe the farming women get around $.30 each, which is actually a pretty good wage if you live in the solomons. Phillipines may be different.
I would hate to see the amount of coral imports go up. Recent data I have seen on another list actually showed coral imports down for 1999, but I have seen conflicting info there, to say the least.
Interesting discussion certainly.
James Wiseman
------------------
Reefs.org Channel Operator
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Anonymous
Guest
Mary et al.
Some fish are FINALLY being imported that are certified cyanide free by the organization that you mentioned. These fish are being imported by the Ecovitality wholesalers. I believe there is one in San Jose CA and one in Vancouver BC.
Since it is illegal to catch fish w/ cyanide in Indonesia and the Phillipines, it is also illegal to SELL them here in the US according to the LACEY act. Recently the Lacey act was used to prosecute someone who was importing dead ornamental coral from the Phillipines. If there are good cyanide testing methods (and there ARE, they have to be done "in-country" though, not in the US) and the USFWS would enforce the Lacey act, we could look forward to fining ppl that import and sell cyanide caught fish.
All of the above is based on my research, and info from the http://www.ecovitality.org/goodfish/ website. Have a look if you haven't seen it. You too Horge.. You may find it interesting.
Of course Certified Cyanide Free fish are more expensive. Hobbiests won't buy something more expensive, unless they see a reason for it of course. I think the fact that the fish will live as opposed to die is a pretty good reason...It's just not readily conveyed at the point of sale.
Cheers
James Wiseman
------------------
Reefs.org Channel Operator
[This message has been edited by jamesw (edited 24 February 2000).]
Some fish are FINALLY being imported that are certified cyanide free by the organization that you mentioned. These fish are being imported by the Ecovitality wholesalers. I believe there is one in San Jose CA and one in Vancouver BC.
Since it is illegal to catch fish w/ cyanide in Indonesia and the Phillipines, it is also illegal to SELL them here in the US according to the LACEY act. Recently the Lacey act was used to prosecute someone who was importing dead ornamental coral from the Phillipines. If there are good cyanide testing methods (and there ARE, they have to be done "in-country" though, not in the US) and the USFWS would enforce the Lacey act, we could look forward to fining ppl that import and sell cyanide caught fish.
All of the above is based on my research, and info from the http://www.ecovitality.org/goodfish/ website. Have a look if you haven't seen it. You too Horge..
You may find it interesting.Of course Certified Cyanide Free fish are more expensive. Hobbiests won't buy something more expensive, unless they see a reason for it of course. I think the fact that the fish will live as opposed to die is a pretty good reason...It's just not readily conveyed at the point of sale.
Cheers
James Wiseman
------------------
Reefs.org Channel Operator
[This message has been edited by jamesw (edited 24 February 2000).]
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Anonymous
Guest
I have been working Dr. Peter Rubec with the International Marinelife Alliance to start importing fish from a station in the Philippines that they support and have certified as cyanide free. The problem is the prices. A diver can catch far more fish with cyanide than he can with nets, so the station has to make it worthwhile monetarily to the divers to use nets. This obviously raises the price of the fish. I do not currently support the Philippines or Indonesia with my business, but I would love to support IMA's station. The bottom line though is how many of you would pay retail $40+ dollars for a Coral Beauty Angel that was certified hand caught?? The majority of hobbyists would rather buy a $15 coral beauty from a mail order company "promising" them that they don't order from unethical countries(yeah right). Until the mindset of the hobbyist changes, it is impossible to sell ethically caught species from countries were cyanide is prevalent (most notably Indonesia and to a much lesser extent the Philippines). It's time for hobbyists to wake up and realize that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Companies that sell fish for low low prices are paying low low prices and you don't pay low low prices for ethically caught fish. If you guys would get together and demand to know where your fish are coming from and how they were caught, you could make a difference. And if your LFS tells you they don't know, then they aren't a very reputable store. If you ever have questions on origins of fish, please contact me and I'll give you as much information as I can.
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AN EDUCATED HOBBYIST DEMANDS AN ETHICAL AND SUSTAINABLE INDUSTRY.
www.reefsource.com
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AN EDUCATED HOBBYIST DEMANDS AN ETHICAL AND SUSTAINABLE INDUSTRY.
www.reefsource.com
A
Anonymous
Guest
From the LFS:
I work in a LFS one to two days a week because I enjoy helping other hobbists. The most expensive fish I can buy is a dead one. I remember when I started working at the LFS about 3 years ago. We used to get in a dozen perculas on average 3 were DOA 5 would die the next day and may be 4 or 5 would make it to someones house. By the time you add up the cost of dead fish and the shipping the $3.00 percula + about $1.75 to ship it would cost us about $10.00 each. This was crazy. Now I get captive bred clowns and don't lose a single one. Now that we get fish from a good source I have cut our loses by more than 75%. I sell more clowns now than ever and they are about $7-10 more. I try to get as many fish from Hawaii, Fiji, Aus, Red Sea, and the Atlantic as I can. I sell more Naso tangs from HI than ones from the INDO. In fact I don't even sell Nasos from the INDO anymore. They are more expensive, but a lot easier to sell. If a person walks into a LFS and has no choice but to buy good fish than they only can buy good fish. Even if its more money. I personily think that if you pay more for a fish you will try to care for it better. I see this everyday a $4.50 damsel, who cares its a damsel, but a $125.00 fish they will stay up all night to care for it. When people ask why my perculas are more expensive I tell them it is because you have to hit it with a hammer to kill it.
I work in a LFS one to two days a week because I enjoy helping other hobbists. The most expensive fish I can buy is a dead one. I remember when I started working at the LFS about 3 years ago. We used to get in a dozen perculas on average 3 were DOA 5 would die the next day and may be 4 or 5 would make it to someones house. By the time you add up the cost of dead fish and the shipping the $3.00 percula + about $1.75 to ship it would cost us about $10.00 each. This was crazy. Now I get captive bred clowns and don't lose a single one. Now that we get fish from a good source I have cut our loses by more than 75%. I sell more clowns now than ever and they are about $7-10 more. I try to get as many fish from Hawaii, Fiji, Aus, Red Sea, and the Atlantic as I can. I sell more Naso tangs from HI than ones from the INDO. In fact I don't even sell Nasos from the INDO anymore. They are more expensive, but a lot easier to sell. If a person walks into a LFS and has no choice but to buy good fish than they only can buy good fish. Even if its more money. I personily think that if you pay more for a fish you will try to care for it better. I see this everyday a $4.50 damsel, who cares its a damsel, but a $125.00 fish they will stay up all night to care for it. When people ask why my perculas are more expensive I tell them it is because you have to hit it with a hammer to kill it.
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