Christmas Tree worms hard to keep?

[dustint]

I read an article that these types of fan worms where difficult to keep? They have short life spans in aquariums even with perfect conditions? Any luck with keeping these guys, and what food and placement in the tank did they prefer?

Been eyeing some lately, thanks for any advice.

 

[esmithiii]

Difficult at best to keep alive. They are filter feeding organisms with very specific diet requirements. They are beautiful while they last, but IMO are better left in the ocean.

Ernie

 

[Jawbone]

I just feed the entire tankwith Kent Phyto-Plankton every couple of days and mine are fine. Never had to feed the worms themselves but I know they are doing ok because I have had babys pop up on the same coral. When I got the porites I and the LFS thought there were very few worms left in it and he just gave it to me. But now it is covered in christmas tree worms and I really have done nothing different, just glad it likes my tank for now.

 

[esmithiii]

Jawbone- how long have you had it? There are many reasons why most the worms would not be opening regularly in the LFS.

Ernie

 

[Biogeek]

I agree with Ernie, these worms have a dismal record of survival in the aquarium. If you're set on having an attempt, though, there is a thread about these worms here in which I give a lot of detail about their biology, life-span and care. If you're going to try, please read through that so that you give them a fighting chance at survival in your aquarium...

Rob

 

[dustint]

Thanks. I certainly dont want to kill the little buggers, but they are cool. Ill have to read more and think about this one. Maybe I can look for one of the more hardy ones, or are they all the same species.

Will read your article.

 

[Anonymous]

hi.
I have one for several years, and I hardly do anything special for it. The Porites and the worms are doing great, but the worms do not seem to grow much at all.

 

[Jawbone]

I think that it is four or five months old now granted not much but all the itty bitty babys have grown to almost adult size.


You should not see much growth in the worm if it is about ½" high thats about it. There are larger species of these type of worm I think up to 4" high but I have only seen in pics

 

[Anonymous]

I ordered a medium sized porite/christmas tree worm coral from premium aquatics about 4-5 months ago. At the time of ordering, I hadn't heard anything about how difficult they might be to keep. Luckily, i got a very healthy and hardy one. The worms were actually extended in the bag. And then came out again in less than an hour after being placed in my tank. So far, no babies.

thanks for the link BioGeek

 

[Biogeek]

Well, given the description from Jawbone, I somehow doubt that we're all talking about the same thing. The true Christmas tree worms (Spirobranchus "giganteus" - I put this in quotes because it is not really a valid species name, but rather a species complex for which the taxonomy has yet to be worked out) only grows about 0.2 mm diameter per year in the wild, and the maximum under ideal conditions seems to be about 1.0 mm per year. So, even if we assume that the growth rate in your tank is around the maximum ever observed in this worm, there is no way that one of these worms can grow from juvenile to adult size in less than a year.

In fact, estimates of time to reproductive maturity in the wild are between 5-10 years. Also, these worms reproduce via mass spawning that produces long-term feeding larvae which are very difficult to raise in captivity. The larvae need phytoplankton concentrations on the order of 10,000 to 100,000 cells per ml of culture water in order gain enough energy from feeding to complete their development and metamorphose into an adult worm. During the several weeks that these larvae are swimming in the tank water (even assuming that there were anywhere near that concentration of phytoplankton present) they would still have to avoid being eaten by corals, filters or protein skimmers. Thus, it is highly unlikely that these animals would be able to reproduce on their own in any aquarium, and to date there has been no report of successful reproduction by Spriobranchus without intentional larval culture (I explain what is involved with this in the Home Breeders Guide)...

I'm glad to hear that yours are doing well, and that you enjoy them, Jawbone, but I have to assume that we're talking about different critters here. If you have these worms PoJohnny, then you shouldn't be expecting to see any babies any time soon. It is also probably worth keeping in mind that most suspension-feeding marine invertebrates are adapted to periods of low food availability, and that they are capable of slowly digesting themselves to wait out periods of low food. Because of this, they are able to last an amazingly long time without sufficient food in an aquarium. It is not unreasonable to expect that a well-fed and healthy worm collected from the wild could last 6-12 months in an aquarium while it slowly starved to death.

I don't mean this to sound at all discouraging, but I just want to make clear that the animals need to be fed the right size and quantity of food to survive long-term in the aquarium if Dustint decides to get some....

Rob

[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Biogeek ]</p>

 

[oranje]

i didn't know the little buggers were difficult to keep until i bought a nice reef book about 3 months back. in a rock which contained 5 initially, 4 are left... one is in a semi-shady area, and doing okay. the other 3 are in excellent health, and are growing! one of them has extended its tube about 0.75cm from the rock since i started dosing with kalkwasser...

so, yeah. i dont think they're that difficult to keep, seeing as they survived in a beginner's tank for 10 or so months before i knew how to care for them. just make sure theyre in direct light, and mild current, and i wouldnt worry too much.

 

[esmithiii]

Jawbone & Agent Orange:

Could you post some pictures to possibly clear up this dillema?

Thanks,

E

 

[SPC]

Jawbone and Agent, without absolute ID of what you have it would be difficult to say that you have been successful with Christmas Tree worms. BTW, we all have small feather dusters in our tank, these are not the same.

 

[oranje]

to the best of my knowledge, they are christmas tree worms. they were sold to me as christmas tree worms, look nothing like any feather dusters in my tank, and have the funky super tight spiral which i associate with every christmas tree worm i've seen.

why is it so unbelievable that mine are surviving? now i'm worried that i'll kill them

 

[esmithiii]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

why is it so unbelievable that mine are surviving?

If you read biogeek's response you will see why it is "so unbelievable." Every reefkeeping book that references these creatures goes on to say how difficult that they are to keep, and that they are better off left in the oceans. They have very specific diets that are difficult to reproduce. If the experts can't keep them alive very well then it is not difficult to see why we might doubt your success. If you are successfully keeping them, we want to know what factors aer involved so we can learn more. They are definitely beautiful, but until we can better keep them alive I will refrain from buying them.


BTW- how long have you had the porites rock w/ the worms?

 

[radium]

Busted!!

 

[Jawbone]

Well here is my picture. I am in no way shape or form going to dispute what the books say. I have the exact books that tell me the same thing. As I stated in the very first posting I did not even think there were any left alive on this rock. I got it just because I liked the Mussel or Clam that is on it was kinda cool. It opens and shuts and I am sure its alive because when you disturb it it clams up real fast, Although I have seen no noticable growth I expect it to do well.
Anyway my understanding with this species of worm is the same as everyone elses I got the Info for this particular Porites Lobata (Boulder Coral) from "Aquarium Corals - Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History - Borneman and according to his assesment "Captive Care: (Page 243) Growth rates can be impressive with Porites, and high current seems to make them thrive. They can be very tolerant of light conditions but bright light is usually optimal. Brighter colors usuallly imply a preference, and perhaps requirment for high illuminatio. COLLECTED PORITES DO NOT ALWAYS SUCCEED IN CAPTIVITY, BUT IF THEY DO BECOME ACCLUMATED, THEY ARE VERY DURABLE."
Now I wish I had a picture of what this looked like when I first got it... It was not green as in my picture it was more grey or light brown but as soon as I put it in my tank all of my bluelegs ( The dirty rotten bastages ) attacked it and would not leave it alone for 2 or 3 days then it started to perk up and show worms and this is what it looks like today.
Yes I know, it looks like I could blow off a little bit of snow off of everything in the tank but my kid has my turkey baster and he likes hide and seek

[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Jawbone ]</p>

 

[oranje]

the rock with the worms has been in this tank for about 10 months methinks...? i've only been caring for the tank myself since september, before that i was merely eager to learn about it. the majority of the life on the rock, other than the worms, died soon after introduction to the system. a small patch of it, which appears to be some kind of sps coral, remains on one side, in the area where the rock receives the lowest amount of light.

i'm waiting for my friend to nab the images off of his digital camera. then, i'll post the pictures and ye all can judge.

the picture in biogeek's post looks very similar to my worms, except for they're not nearly as dense - many, many fewer spirals, even on the densest of mine.

again, i'll hopefully post some pictures later.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem you will have is that since the coral is dead, coraline algae will slowly take over. As the coraline advances, the worms die.
It's a foregone conclusion.
Jim

 

[esmithiii]

the worms are commensal with the porites on the rock. Once the porites dies, the worms soon follow (soon may mean 6+ months.) That is my understanding.

Also, just because the worms appeared to be "microscopic" months ago doesn't mean that they have grown. It is possible that they were not fully expanding before and that they are now.

Those do look like christmas tree worms to me, though. The porites looks dead in the photo, though.

Ernie