CC to DSB Help

[esmithiii]

Here is how I replies to a similar post:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> I Added a DSB to my established 55 and can give you some advice. First, it is a pain in the butt! It took me about 5 hours total. Get a bunch (2-3) of rubbermaid containers (32 gal), and mix water like you were going to do a water change. Siphon off enough water to fill to 1/2 the vol of your rubbermaid containers.
Move the LR to the containers as you are siphoning, and place the corals carefully on top of the LR. I did not bother to use powerheads or heaters in my containers; I just worked fast.

When the water level is low in the tank (the lower the better), remove the existing substrate using a scoop. You may want to leave some to seed the new bed. You now may want to use some PVC on the bottom of the tank as a base for the LR so that burrowing fauna doesn't topple your LR.

Now add the sand using the scoop. This keeps the water from clouding too much. Make sure the bed is fairly even, 4-6" deep. Add the LR from one container at a time leaving the corals in the containers for now.

Then place a large tupperware dish in the bottom of your tank as well as a heater. The sand is probably colder than the water which will cause your water temp to drop. Since your sump is not in circulation, the heaters there will not help.

Using a powerhead/pump and a length of tubing, pump the salt water you mixed for the water change into the tank. Coil a small length of the tubing in the tupperware container so the water being pumped up is not being pumped into the sand bed. This will GREATLY reduce the clouding in your tank.

Now pump the water from the containers holding the corals. As the water level in the main tank rises, add the corals one by one.

Once the tank level has risen enough, continue to pump from the containers that held the LR and corals and simultaneously siphon off the foam produced by adding the sand and some of the cloudy water.

Run your skimmer and your powerheads. The storms will persist for less than a day, and in 48 hrs max your water will be crystal clear again.

I did it this way and only lost one cleaner shrimp that I accidentally burried

BTW- leaving some of the crushed coral is OK, but it has a tendency to come to the surface. One of the benefits of the sand bed (unlike the CC) is that detritus and food particles don't collect in the crevices in the substrate. I think you will be happier and your tank will be happier with the DSB approach. I have observed a noticible improvement in the health of the tank since I went through the hassle of adding mine.
The guy that delivered my 180G owns an LFS (the one Tullock owned) and maintains many tanks in the Knoxville area commented on how well my tank was doing.

My tank experienced a small, short lived algae bloom a month and a half after adding the sand. The bloom was nothing compared to the initial bloom the tank went through.


<hr></blockquote>

Here is a link to the entire thread; it is good reading:

CC --> DSB

 

[henkelsfamily1]

Thanks for the reply and the link. I guess I have a weekends worth of work. The wife is gong to be soooo happy to hear that I am playing with the tank again.

Walter

 

[Anonymous]

Where's the thread that discusses using panty hose to allow all the critters to stay in your tank?

 

[BReefCase]

Here's a slightly different approach. It's a reprint of an answer I gave to a similar thread a while back. Be sure to read and understand the warning about disturbing existing crushed coral beds.

Gradually changing from CC (Crushed Coral) substrate to a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) could not be simpler. No need to drain the tank or remove anything. The tank will not cycle again because this method changes the substrate slowly so your biological filter is not wrecked.

Detailed instructions for the changeover are below, but first one vital caveat: if your crushed coral bed is deeper than about an inch, there is
some small but finite possibility that disturbing it may release poisonous decay byproducts into the tank and wipe it out. Any scent of rotten egg smell in the substrate is a warning sign, but such a smell need not be present for there to be a problem. (By the way, this would be a concern even if you decided to just scoop out the CC all at once.)

Decide carefully first if you choose to risk this. The alternative is to break down the tank, replace the substrate, and change all the water.

If you want to proceed, do the following. Get a vinyl one-inch bore siphon hose, some "oolitic" aragonite "sugar" sand, a plastic kitchen funnel,
and some rigid airline tube that is a snug fit on the funnel outlet and long enough to reach the bottom of the tank.

The idea is to work in small areas, giving things a day or a week or a month as you choose between sections. It doesn't matter, but more time
between sections is safer and will let any life in the CC migrate into the new DSB as you go. There is no rush.

Siphon out a small strip of your crushed coral three or four inches wide. (Almost all CC of reasonable size can be siphoned through a inch-bore hose -- if the tank empties too much, just keep putting the siphoned-out water back, using tank water or new salt water to prime the hose.) You can leave the CC under the live rock alone, or lift out one piece of rock each "session" and do under it.

With the CC removed from the small area you are working in this session, put the new sugar sand into the funnel and use tank water to wash it
down the airline tubing. Dip water from the tank and pour it into the funnel cup, letting it force the sand down the tube.

Dry sand will NOT pour -- it has to get wet in the funnel cup before it will go down into the tank. I use sand out of the bag with no rinsing and
have never had trouble. (If small amounts of lite twig-like organic matter float up to the top out of the new sand, just net them out and discard
them.)

You want to keep the end of the tube right on the bottom of the tank so the sand doesn't fall free through the water column and cloud things up, but is deposited directly on the bottom. Just lay the sand into the trench you made. Ultimately you want your new sand bed several inches deep, but for now make it only as deep as you can pile it up without it spilling over into adjoining areas of CC too badly.

If all goes well, repeat this process each session until you have done the whole tank. Once all the CC is gone, work on deepening the DSB to full depth by regularly piling new sand in the front corners and letting the critters in the tank distribute it over time until the bed is up to depth.

Lift live rock up a bit if the base gets buried too much. The idea is to add depth very gradually, giving any live critters time to move up and not
get buried deeper than they like.

The above procedure was not made with Southdown sand in mind, but Southdown will work provided the funnel you use has a big enough bore to let the larger particles found in Southdown flow through.

 

[henkelsfamily1]

I need to get rid of my CC bred and replace with a DSB. I have a 75 and have bought the South Down. I have 150lbs of live rock. An assortment of both SPS and LSp along with a lot of shrooms. Am I going to get a cycle that will cause the tank to crash please help. My nitrates are through the roof but all else is in check. I need to do this. I am upgrading to a 230 in the next 6 months but can not wait. All suggestions and comments are more than appreciated.

Thanks

Walter

 

[henkelsfamily1]

Once again, thanks for the help.

Walter

 

[Mouse]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

Where's the thread that discusses using panty hose to allow all the critters to stay in your tank?

TG, i think it was Cheese Sandwich. He said that when you replace a CC for a DSB you can aid Pod re-population by filling a pantyhose with CC and placing it ontop of the new DSB. This will allow the little guys to get out of the CC into the DSB whilst also allowing you to easily remove the CC at a later date once the pods are established.

But IMO, when you have LR, the size of the pod population that are reintroduced via the pantyhose are probably minimal compared to the LR's additions. But in the instance this method was suggested there was no LR.

My advice, take it easy, get everything ready before you start (including the beers at the ready for when youve finished). And hopefully with a relaxed, conciencous planned appreach you should achive what you set out to do. On the other hand, instances like these provide the opertunity to create complete desaster. Rock slides, bad water make ups, dropping things etc etc. I would even get everything ready one day, and then do the change the other. This should also give the newly mixed water time to settle properly. And also make more water than you anticipate using. All you need to do is loose that all important bucket of water and you have another rush on your hands.

 

[henkelsfamily1]

Is there going to be a cycle that will be bad for my live stock?

Walter

 

[Anonymous]

BreefCase, I don't know if you visit the sump and see how stubbornly single/independent I am, but will you marry me?

Again - you da man!

 

[Anonymous]

Here's another method--it's a very detailed, carefully planned wholesale swap of CC to DSB (the best method I've read). Credits go to FishWhisperer:


Topic: Sandbed Swap Article
FISH WHISPERER
Member
Member # 3404
posted March 19, 2001 06:28 PM
Hi all, here's that article I promised some folks. It's lengthy, and like my others I have it on Word Format. Feel free to email me and I'll send it. It's not up on my site yet, and probably won't be for awhile. It's a tested and true swap, not a guess of how things "might" work best.
SANDBED SWAP
You have a crushed coral sandbed, or perhaps a mixed substrate that has too many large particles to be as efficient at nitrate export as a sandbed of smaller grain size. Whatever the case, you want to swap to a DSB, using the much talked about HD
(Home Depot) playsand from Southdown. Or perhaps you're a maverick using "silica" sand. Lot's of folks have, but we're not here to debate silica/non-silica sand. There are many types of playsand, and the most important thing is that you don't put anything BAD into your tank. I'm talking about sands with limestone, or any type of concrete sand. Don't roll your eyes; some folks have done it.
So now you have your small particle sand and are wondering, "what the heck do I do NOW???" There are so many ways, and you can drag the process out for longer than necessary. We won't be going over the "long-haul" approach to mixing in/swapping out sand. We'll be going over the "one-day" swap. If suspicious caution tips the scale over proven practice, STOP READING. There are plenty of folks who will cater to a one-month "dragging out" process. We're ready to go to work and make this as easy as possible, without killing any inhabitants, and immediately transporting your beneficial bacteria/life while maintaining sufficient amounts during the transfer!
Again, there are many variations and you might make a few yourselves. Why not consider these basic guidelines:
Make sure you have plenty of materials on hand. You'd be best off having another hobbyist on hand to help you out and make sure at least one of you has your head screwed on at all times! Things can get hectic, and you can work yourself into a corner if you don't THINK. You'll want to have plenty of fresh saltwater made up. Plan on at least 30% of your total tank's volume.

Have one pair of nylons (that's right, panty-hose!) They're not part of a kinky half-time show, just make sure you have some!
Rubbermaid makes some excellent 20G trashcans, called Roughnecks. Those are perfect to have your fresh water mixed in the night before. You will also want enough of them to store your live rock. Yes, get over the thought of "leaving your rock in" and somehow changing "enough" sand/substrate out. This process is going for the "total swap"! No matter how big your tank size, remember that 30% fresh water makeup. Don't skimp, you may or may not need it, but you'll kick yourself if you have foul water you have to add back. We'll cover that later! Make things really easy and have a strong pump to return water into your pump, and have plenty of hose to do it. The 20G Roughnecks are perfect, because you can mix the water up in the kitchen/garage, yet two people can still move one full of water to the tank when you need it.
Worried about netting your fish? Don't. This particular process doesn't do that. We think it more stressful on the fish to "yank" them than to just leave them behind. We've never "floated" a fish yet by changing their environment. Still, have that net/hospital box on hand. You might have a fish that really starts looking bad, or so stressed it won't even swim away from your hand. We've never had this happen, but you still want to BE PREPARED. If a fish won't swim away from your hand, I'd scoop him up in a clear hospital box and transfer him to one of your freshly made batches of saltwater. I can't go over every little bit of common sense; I'm hoping you'll have more than I do! Have a couple of cheap heaters set to maintain 80F. You'll need these in your live rock tubs later. Make sure you set them at 80F so they are ready to go when you need them. If you have a heater in the made up water, great. If not, you can always add boiling water and bring it to the right temperature when you need it. The most important thing is that the salt is dissolved. If you have powerheads to keep circulation, that's great. If not, you can keep it agitated every half an hour or so with really vigorous stirring using a long stick/spoon. Be creative! Have plenty of towels on hand. Not paper towels, but plenty of old bath towels. Have at least one floating glass hydrometer. This will allow you to quickly take temperatures and measure salinity. If you are not using heaters in your makeup water, mix a bit more salt than necessary, because you'll be adding hot water later to bring it to temperature. Okay, ready to start!!

The hardest part is the preparation. Trust me. Now everything goes quickly. You already have plenty of fresh makeup water to put back in the tank, and you have a lineup of empty Roughnecks at your disposal. Enough buckets are critical. You know how big your tank is, and you'll want sufficient buckets to dump your old substrate in.
Start by powering down your system. Don't worry about the heater being in the sump. It is safer down there while you're moving your rock, and this won't take too long.

Next, remove any corals and keep them in a separate small tub with your pre-calibrated heater and a powerhead. You don't want to be piling your live rock on your prize corals. Next, take out your live rock and put it in one of the garbage cans. Fill it ¾ full, and have another garbage can if you need one. Once you've reached, siphon enough water out to cover all the rock. Move the garbage can out of the way. Remember the heater you set for 80F? Make sure that's in the can. If you have a powerhead, that's great too. Not necessary, but certainly a "proper" thing to do!

Now would be a great time to either put one of your extra heaters in the main tank, or put the one from your sump in the tank.
Once you have removed all your live rock, and the tubs are not crowded in your work area (aren't you glad you had plenty of towels on hand??) you can scoop the old substrate out. You're the creative genius of your household, so you figure out what you have to use to scoop it with. Remember the nylons? For every 50G of tank, make about 6 nylon "balls" of substrate. Make them the size of softball, and you'll be fine.

Hey, now your tank is empty of substrate and rock! It probably looks pretty foul down near the bottom, right? Grab that brush and go to work. By now your fish know you're up to no good, and this shouldn't alarm them any more. Besides, they're really familiar with this practice because you faithfully clean your tank, right ? Your water might be real cloudy. You have 30% fresh made up, right? So do the math and figure out how much you have taken out to fill your live rock tubs. If you have only used 10% of your volume, take another 15% out. You want to try and gauge this so you have some extra "just in case". Remember, your rock had some water displaced, so keep that in mind when figuring out how much more to siphon out.

Now it's time to add the new sand. There are a lot of variations of doing this, so choose your weapon! You might pour it down a PVC pipe, or you might pour it over an upside down bowl. Don't be totally inconsiderate of your fish and just go dump it in. You may have rinsed your sand, or you may not have. Some say rinsing it removes sedimentary particles necessary. There's no doubt that they are indeed beneficial, but we've done it both ways. Either way, if your using a light aragonite sand your water will be cloudy. The silica sands will settle faster. Now would be a great time to add a few pieces of large lace/bowl rock. You can usually find them dry in a bin at your local fish store. Rinse them very well with a high-pressure garden hose nozzle. You can make some awesome caves, which will support your live rock on top.

Now that your sand is in, you're ready to go! Aren't you real glad you have all those towels? Your water might be so cloudy that you can't see 1" into the tank. If you are planning a real technical sculpting job, you might want to wait till the water clears up. This could be the next day, if you really want total clarity. If you have a built up scum from the new sand, scoop it off the tank surface with your net. You can line the net with shredded cotton balls to make it more efficient. If your rock is "piled" towards the back, or in the middle, you can usually add it back in just fine despite the poor visibility. The bottom pieces are the last pieces you took out, and are on the top of your live rock bin. If you used two or more, work logically (the last pieces out are the first pieces back in). Now is a great time to shake the rocks gently in the water as you pull them out. This will remove any built up sediment. Don't worry about the water, as you won't be adding it back to the tank. That's why you have plenty of makeup. You may want to keep your corals separate for now, in their heated bin with a powerhead. Now that your rocks are back in, you can add the water. The 20G Roughnecks are perfect, as you can move them full of water (requires some muscle, which is why you have a friend to help). That pump and hose make this real easy. Now's a good time to go with a flashlight and inspect your bins which were previously storing your live rock. Look for any shells that might have crabs. If you see a shell, add it to your tank. Don't try to figure out if there is crab in there. There probably is, or it wouldn't have fallen off the rock. See any prize worms? Toss those back in, too!

Remember your "softballs" of substrate? Bury those about halfway into the new sandbed, spaced apart in the new sandbed. I'd leave them in for about two weeks, moving them around a bit every other day. This will maintain your bacterium while seeding the new sandbed. During this two weeks, gently stir the new sandbed with a long wooden dowel to help evenly form the biofilm. When you're ready to pull the softballs, do so gently. You may have developed some small holes by escapees or curious fish. By virtue of design, the nylons will hold together well.
Well, this is just a first edition, and I may have left something out. If it's just another variation, that's not a problem. Remember, there are a lot of different methods. But I think we've covered the basics. You know how to fill in the blanks, such as putting your heater back in the sump, turning your system back on, etc. Don't forget your corals, in their separate bin, either. You do want to get those back in your system as soon as possible.

As the system clears, you may want to rearrange some rock. Since you're new to this whole "sandbed thing" you might be confused as to the constant "dusting" you'll be seeing on your live rock. Not to worry, it will all eventually settle. Have a turkey baster on hand and baste from the top, working your way down to clear it every now and then.

Hey, this is just one of many ways to go about it. I'm sure there are a hundred variations, which many of you have been successful with. That's great! This is for the person who has never done it yet, and wants to do it in a day if possible. It is possible, and we've just outlined how! Good luck, and I hope this is a good guideline of some important steps along the way to replacing your old cc substrate!
Fish Whisperer

 

[Anonymous]

That's the one tyoberg! Thank you!

 

[mrrrkva]

Awesome response, just 2 more important things.
1) I would put some rock on the bottom of the tank and than fill sand around it, do this with ugly base rock and build on those, that way it will help avoid rock slides, or you can build on some eggcrates to prevent this.
2) In a couple of days, take a powerhead and spray off all the rocks. This will really help cut down on any possible algae outbreaks. You will have alot of debris on the rocks after this process.

 

[esmithiii]

Not typically. You may experience some blooms, though.

As I said before, I lost only 1 shrimp (which I left in the tank and accidentally burried when I added the sand.)

My fish and corals all made it with flying colors.

Ernie

 

[jdamon]

I have a similar situation with my 75 reef. I don't currently have any substrate in the tank itself, but I do have large CC chunks in the sump and a DSB in my refugium. I want to add a DSB to the main tank. I called Home Depot and the said they have "play sand", but I am concerned i will get the wrong thing. I read the old threads from last year about South Down, but how are you sure that the sand is not silica based? There was another brand and some one posted a picture. It turned out to be South Down in a new bag, but what I noticed is that it said "from the carribean".. I thought it was from Penn.? Any help is appreciated. Oh, and how many pounds equals 4" in a 75gal, 48" x 18" ?

 

[FishHead1]

If you're planning another tank in six months - wait.
I recently replaced the cc with SouthDown in my 180. It's a lot of work, mess and hassle. Why go through that if you're going to do a new tank in six months?

 

[henkelsfamily1]

Man I love you guys and girls. Thank you all for your responces. I have begun making water and preparing the wife and kid for the task. The wifes job is to not question me and as for the kids, my 4 year old doughter is in charge of checking the new SW and my 2 year old son will be in charge of watching for stressed fish. They both love the reef and have a unbeleavable grasp of the science behind the hobby. I am going to usetyoberg method due to the fact that I can get it done and overwith in one day. Thanks again.

Walter