• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

howman1

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
hi,
i am designing my 180g plumbing system

i will have a 35 gallon sump, how many gph should the return pump be, i intend on having an external pump (as almost no internal is strong enough)

which manufacturer's are best? what ar pros and cons of each?

thanks
howard
 

WWiley

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
What kind of water motion are you looking for. I use a mak4 on a closed loop just for water movement on my 240. And its not really that strong at 4'of head. Your 35gal sump will limit your choices as well. WW
 

howman1

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
water circulation--please help educate me what is the best setup for my 180g

i am using the plumbing design that inlandreef.com has on their site--i just don't know which pump to go with,
should i go closed loop, i need more info

howard
 

esmithiii

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And its not really that strong at 4'of head.

There is no way you could get 4' of head on a closed loop. Check out this link about calculating head loss in a closed loop system: http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=031523

Howman1:

Total water turnover in your tank depends on what type corals you wish to keep. Some prefer calmer waters, others like SPS require high water movement. Also, you do not want your fish to be blown about or to have to hide behind rocks to rest from the flow.

I would shoot for 5-10x/hr turnover in the main tank. That means you should have minimum of 900 GPH pumping. If you plan on having a refugium in your sump, you probably want only a fraction of the volume passing through the sump, say 33%, which would be 300+ gph. To get the remaining 600+ gph, there are many options. You can create a closed loop system, which is very efficient at moving water around, much more efficient than the overflow-sump-return method. another way is by using powerheads. I believe that you want moderate, chaotic water movement to enhance gas exchange. One way to do this with the closed loop system is to use sea swirls, which are basically oscillating nozzles that constantly redirect the output of the pump in the closed loop. One way to do this w/ powerheads is by using a wavemaker.

IMO the best scenario (other than using a surge device which I won't get into here) is a limited flow through a sump/refugium and the use of a closed loop connected to a spraybar and/or sea swirls.

How do you calculate gph for a given pump? it is simple. The pump manufacture will post flow rates (usually in table form) for given head pressures. How do you calculate head pressure? Use this calculator:

Head Pressure Calculator

When measuring vertical distance, only consider the difference in the distance (vertically) between the intake of the pump and the outlet of the pump. In the case of a sump, use the distance between the bottom of the sump and the top of your tank. In the case of a closed loop, use 0.

A rule of thumb is that for 1.25" ID tubing, every 14' of tubing adds one foot of head, every 90 degree elbow adds 0.4 feet of head, every 90 degree elbow adds 0.6 feet of head.

Lets say you are calculating head pressure for a closed loop system. Suppose your tank is 4' off the floor, and you use 1.25 ID PVC. Your tank is drilled in the back so you have 1 90 elbow from the drain in the back of the tank, then 4' of tubing which is connected to another elbow to go to the intake of the pump. Then from the pump it comes up 4' to a sea swirl (which has 2 90 deg. elbows.) This adds up to a total of (4 * 0.6) + (8 /14) = 2.4 + 0.6 = 3' head. Suppose you are using a mak 4 pump, which is rated at 1,190 gph @ 4' head. Since your closed loop is under 4' head the output would be slightly higher than 1200 GPH. (I looked for the table on-line, but was unable to find one.)

Now if you are going to use this as a sump return pump, you have to add the vertical head loss (4' in the case above) to the head loss from elbows, which will be more than 3', probably closer to 5' head.


I hope this helps. FWIW I have a mak4 pump for my return pump, and I plan on adding a closed loop in the near future. I currently have one of the return lines coming into a sea swirl and I also have a powerhead on a wavemaker.

Ernie

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: esmithiii ]</p>
 

WWiley

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Howman1 A nice pump that I use on my skimmer is the little giant 4mdqx-sc. 1" in and 1" out it has a fan and the noise isn't to bad. The mak4's are nice. And Iwaki pumps are widely used and liked I have a md30RLT. The Mag18-24 would work.
The Dolphin ampmaster3000 is very popular 1.5" in and 1.5" out you could spit the return 3 or even 4 ways . .02 WW
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If this 180 has dual overflows I would suggest you select two smaller pumps i.e. two pumps capable of 900gph at the desired head i.e. 4 feet.

If the tank is an AGA, their overflows can't handle much more than 600-700 gph and still be quiet. So two MAG 9.5's would even suffice, or two RL Quiet Ones. If this was then to be an SPS tank I'd consider adding a closed loop for increased flow. Otherwise I think you'll more or less be all set with the two smaller pumps as it will give you a nice mix of high flow and low flow areas and with two smaller pumps you have some built in redundancy for circulation should a pump fail.
 

howman1

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
thanks for the excellent advice

-my system will have 2 corner overflows-oceanic

-my thinking is as follows:
1 end will be a closed loop system using an iwaki wmd30rlxt
-the other will be go into the refugium/sump based on the INLAND REEF diagram on their website (typical plumbing ideas)--i have yet to decide on that pump (although i do have a mag12 which can be used inline and not submersed)

-tom, thanks for the data about the noise, to combat this i will construct the durso pipe method

how does this all sound, what do you think of my pump choices??? is a 35 gallon tank a large enough sump, how large should the refugium be?

howard
 

wickerj

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If you're looking for a quiet pump I'd go with a CSL Velocity T3 or T4 for your sump return and I'd put a Dolphin Ampmaster 3000 on a closed loop. You may want to look into sea swirls on the closed loop. With this setup you should be able to eliminate or at least reduce powerheads in your tank.
Good Luck,
Jeff
 

Sponsor Reefs

We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.

Click here to sponsor $10:


Top