I am pretty sure they hire a outside service company to do the maintenance work for them. The cost of the maintenance is probably incomparable to the amount of income they can generate. Thus to them, wasting a few fish......So what? Vice versa, someone like us probably won't make a good manager there as we would be too focused in make sure the fishes are happy and ignored how to bring the customers in. (not many customers want to see little pods crawling up and down the glass while they are eating.......)
Rain Forest Cafe - do they know how bad their tanks are?
- Thread starter danmhippo
- Start date
Howdy,
I have been to the one at the Ontario Mills shopping center, and it too has crappy tanks. The worst example was a large hippo tang with grossly flaired and distended gills that made me want to puke everytime it swam by my dining table.
This is just another example of how "animal" lovers don't even consider fish "animals" worth fighting for. I guess unless an animal has a cute face, the average animal activist just doesn't care. They will harass a store that sells fur, but have you ever seen a pickett line outside a Petco?
Anyway, I probably will never go to another rainforest cafe again. The food was so-so, the animals scared my son, and the fish tanks made me sad.
Scott.
I have been to the one at the Ontario Mills shopping center, and it too has crappy tanks. The worst example was a large hippo tang with grossly flaired and distended gills that made me want to puke everytime it swam by my dining table.
This is just another example of how "animal" lovers don't even consider fish "animals" worth fighting for. I guess unless an animal has a cute face, the average animal activist just doesn't care. They will harass a store that sells fur, but have you ever seen a pickett line outside a Petco?
Anyway, I probably will never go to another rainforest cafe again. The food was so-so, the animals scared my son, and the fish tanks made me sad.
Scott.
Well a few years back (maybe 4-5) I went on a tour of the entire restaurant in the Chicago area that you describe. My sister lived next to the resturants GM at the time (he has since left the area I think), and I am a Chef by trade so it was really cool to see both of my obsessions mixed into one. I remeber talking to the fish guy at the time, he had to re-design the initial filtration system (a huge centralized system)...at that time things seemed to be in good shape, but that was at least 4 years ago...
It saddens me to hear that the restaurant has gone down hill...the food was OK but overpriced for what was there.
SFL
It saddens me to hear that the restaurant has gone down hill...the food was OK but overpriced for what was there.
SFL
The RFCafe here in DFW (Grapevine Mills Mall) is the same. I have never eaten there before, but I have walked around and looked at the tanks inside the shop. Piss poor indeed. The last time I was in there was around Xmas time.
I believe the general public does not realize the condition these fish are in. If you stand around long enough most people "oooo" and "ahhhh" over the pretty yellow fishies. These people never realizing they are covered in parasites and gasping their last breaths.
So, is this trend from the guidelines set by the RFCafe on stocking their tanks? Or is this from money hungry maintenance companies in every single market?
How enraged would the public be if they knew the 100s of pounds of decorative fish this franchise goes through in a year, 5 years, etc... enviromentalists my a**!!
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Modo ]</p>
I believe the general public does not realize the condition these fish are in. If you stand around long enough most people "oooo" and "ahhhh" over the pretty yellow fishies. These people never realizing they are covered in parasites and gasping their last breaths.
So, is this trend from the guidelines set by the RFCafe on stocking their tanks? Or is this from money hungry maintenance companies in every single market?
How enraged would the public be if they knew the 100s of pounds of decorative fish this franchise goes through in a year, 5 years, etc... enviromentalists my a**!!
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Modo ]</p>
- Location
- Virginia
I was just at a Rain Forest Cafe today, and sat next to one of their tanks, and the same thought that always occurs to me occurred to me again, don't they know anything about marine fish?
When they first opened up here in Chicago, the store that stocked their tank gave them over 300 fish at the same time (I won't incriminate Living Sea in Park Ridge by mentioning their name) that were very very large (needless to say, not a single one of them was alive within 2 months time). Even then, I knew that they were either ignorant, or stupid, or possibly a combination of both.
Ever since then, every time I go back (I know, don't patronize them if you don't agree with them, but my daughter enjoys the rainstorms and the moving animals) I am appalled at the conditions in their tanks.
Beef #1 - General Health
Their fish always seem to have some sort of parasite or virus or disease of some sort. Every tang and angel is always flaring its gills at the current, and that suggests some sort of parasite on their gills to me. Visible ich and lumps over the bodies of the fish also is rampant.
Beef #2 - Water Quality
Ever notice the slime algae covering everything? It's pretty gross when the bright decorations are all covered up, and to top it off, you wouldn't be able to see that some of the decorations are yellow anyway, since the water is too.
Beef #3 - Compatibility
In one tank I saw today (granted it was pretty large, probably 4'Hx6'Wx2'D, but probably over 50% of the swimming area was taken up by 2 large decorations covering the filter area) they had a large gray angel with a clouded over and popped eye also in the late stages of popeye, a large french angel that sat with its head in the coral the entire time, a juvenile majestic angel finishing up its color change, a medium sized blue face angel, large domino damsels that were completely discolored, a hog fish, a porcupine puffer, a cuban hog, a large batfish, a large sergeant major damsel, a large jewel damsel, a hawkfish, and some other fish as well that were too busy swimming into the wall to come to my side of the tank. Now I will mix angels, and often as well, but not in those conditions with them obviously picking on each other. In another tank, they had (and the tang lovers will go ape over this one) a mixture of pacific blues, atlantic blues, sailfins, yellows, and probably some more as well. Mixed in there with them was a huge panther grouper, a bunch of batfish, other miscellaneous groupers, and a bunch of other miscellaneous fish. Again, HUGE cylindrical tanks joined by a swim through area, but also again, huge decorations taking up over 50% of the tank volume.
Beef #4 - Recreation of a Natural Environment
For a chain that says that it wants to maintain the integrity of the worlds rain forests and keep them pristine and unchanged by human development and interference, they sure don't know jack about fish. Going back to my above example, how are you portraying a natural setting when you have a mix of an atlantic blue tang and a pacific blue tang in the same tank? You're either in one ocean or the other, not both. Not that I don't mix and match in my system, but if your goal is to replicate nature, how do you mix oceans?
Just wanted to air my opinions, as I have aired them to the managers probably half the times I've been there (it usually starts with "your fish died as I sat there at the table, my guess is you need to....") and been ignored.
When they first opened up here in Chicago, the store that stocked their tank gave them over 300 fish at the same time (I won't incriminate Living Sea in Park Ridge by mentioning their name) that were very very large (needless to say, not a single one of them was alive within 2 months time). Even then, I knew that they were either ignorant, or stupid, or possibly a combination of both.
Ever since then, every time I go back (I know, don't patronize them if you don't agree with them, but my daughter enjoys the rainstorms and the moving animals) I am appalled at the conditions in their tanks.
Beef #1 - General Health
Their fish always seem to have some sort of parasite or virus or disease of some sort. Every tang and angel is always flaring its gills at the current, and that suggests some sort of parasite on their gills to me. Visible ich and lumps over the bodies of the fish also is rampant.
Beef #2 - Water Quality
Ever notice the slime algae covering everything? It's pretty gross when the bright decorations are all covered up, and to top it off, you wouldn't be able to see that some of the decorations are yellow anyway, since the water is too.
Beef #3 - Compatibility
In one tank I saw today (granted it was pretty large, probably 4'Hx6'Wx2'D, but probably over 50% of the swimming area was taken up by 2 large decorations covering the filter area) they had a large gray angel with a clouded over and popped eye also in the late stages of popeye, a large french angel that sat with its head in the coral the entire time, a juvenile majestic angel finishing up its color change, a medium sized blue face angel, large domino damsels that were completely discolored, a hog fish, a porcupine puffer, a cuban hog, a large batfish, a large sergeant major damsel, a large jewel damsel, a hawkfish, and some other fish as well that were too busy swimming into the wall to come to my side of the tank. Now I will mix angels, and often as well, but not in those conditions with them obviously picking on each other. In another tank, they had (and the tang lovers will go ape over this one) a mixture of pacific blues, atlantic blues, sailfins, yellows, and probably some more as well. Mixed in there with them was a huge panther grouper, a bunch of batfish, other miscellaneous groupers, and a bunch of other miscellaneous fish. Again, HUGE cylindrical tanks joined by a swim through area, but also again, huge decorations taking up over 50% of the tank volume.
Beef #4 - Recreation of a Natural Environment
For a chain that says that it wants to maintain the integrity of the worlds rain forests and keep them pristine and unchanged by human development and interference, they sure don't know jack about fish. Going back to my above example, how are you portraying a natural setting when you have a mix of an atlantic blue tang and a pacific blue tang in the same tank? You're either in one ocean or the other, not both. Not that I don't mix and match in my system, but if your goal is to replicate nature, how do you mix oceans?
Just wanted to air my opinions, as I have aired them to the managers probably half the times I've been there (it usually starts with "your fish died as I sat there at the table, my guess is you need to....") and been ignored.
You know what--they tend to put Rain Forest Cafes in big shopping malls. How do you support rain forrests and shopping malls at the same time? You can't really--there aren't two things more diametrically opposed on the planet. It's all just a business--that's their gimmick to suck people in.
Secondly, does a healthy tank really do much more for the average paying customer that a mediocre tank? No. They see a fish; they're happy. Look at it this way--it's not an aquarium, it's just another part of the atmosphere there--a minor attraction. Why spend a lot of money on the tanks when a little money does just as good from the business standpoint?
Ty
Secondly, does a healthy tank really do much more for the average paying customer that a mediocre tank? No. They see a fish; they're happy. Look at it this way--it's not an aquarium, it's just another part of the atmosphere there--a minor attraction. Why spend a lot of money on the tanks when a little money does just as good from the business standpoint?
Ty
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by srbayless:
<strong>
I have been to the one at the Ontario Mills shopping center, and it too has crappy tanks. </strong><hr></blockquote>
that's the same one i was referring to.
<strong>
I have been to the one at the Ontario Mills shopping center, and it too has crappy tanks. </strong><hr></blockquote>
that's the same one i was referring to.
the one by me here in Detroit is all the same. Every time i go there are missing fish. One week i went they had Moorish Idols
. Next week they were gone and tehy had bannerfish instead
. I wonder were the Idols went. All the tangs always have Lateral line disease. Last week i went and they had huge ick infestation. The fish were scratching themselves everywere. It is always so sad. I know some fish get sick sometimes but come on not to were you go through 1000 dollars worth of fish a month. I know someone who works at teh RF and she said they have a group of people that work there do the work. Not a service. Teh aslo have like a 30000 dollar a year budget jsut for fish. One girl who works on teh salt some came to my work adn asked if i know how to get a angel to eat. She didnt even know that tehy actually like eating sponge. I think we should all send angry letters to corperate at once. How many reefs are in the rainforest anyway?
I have never heard of or seen the RFC chain of eateries but if this group is noticing it then others must be as well. Seems I would offer your services to be the corporate aquarium overseer or whatever weird ass title you can make up. If they have the budjet you say they do per store can you imagine the salary you could draw in if you could save them 1/2 of their budjet a year. I have come to a singular conclusion over the years that tells me 90 percent of the people that piss you off because they do this or that, are actually oblivious to the situation or so un-informed about the situation that they have no idea what the "Next Step" is or who to turn to to take that next step. I see a money making oppurtunity and all everyone here see's is corporate giants dooping the public. I have a very oppurtunistic attitude about this and if I was near one or two of these eateries I would put together a proposal with what you believe is a firm estimate on losses versus what you would need to earn a living and I would guess that they would bite.
- Location
- Virginia
This is also posted on Reef Central and there are some interesting links there to various sites, including the one for the company that built the tanks for them.
Check it out, and also, when this thread gets long enough, I'm thinking that Rain Forest Cafe and the local stores and maintenance people should get copies of it.
Rain Forest Cafe Thread on Reef Central
Check it out, and also, when this thread gets long enough, I'm thinking that Rain Forest Cafe and the local stores and maintenance people should get copies of it.
Rain Forest Cafe Thread on Reef Central
There is a restaurant just south of here, Kelly's Roast Beef, with a fairly large reef tank setup. Last time I was there it was in good condition, but a couple years ago they had a different maintenance company and the tank was a sewer. Completely overgrown with hair algae.
People looked at the long green algae waving in the current and "oooh'd" and "aaaaah'd" just the same.
The general public has no clue what constitutes a healthy reef or a healthy fish. And I'm pretty sure places like the RFC bank on that ignorance.
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
People looked at the long green algae waving in the current and "oooh'd" and "aaaaah'd" just the same.
The general public has no clue what constitutes a healthy reef or a healthy fish. And I'm pretty sure places like the RFC bank on that ignorance.
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pez:
<strong>How (many) tropical reef fish do you find in the Amazon rain forest exactly?</strong><hr></blockquote>
How much you wanna bet that over 50% of their customers don't know the difference between saltwater and freshwater?
We are so involved in this hobby, we forget the level of knowledge of the average person. Especially one that doesn't live near the ocean.
I remember trying to go through the Denver airport with a sea anemone, and the people there said "What's a sea amenome?" Not one person, All of them - Ticket counter, security checkpoint, boarding gate, etc. I tried to explain what it was and only got blank stares. What finally worked was: "It's like a goldfish."
Not only does the average person not know how to spot an unhealthy fish, many of them would not realize they are looking at a saltwater tank. We regularly get people in our store, which is saltwater-only, that don't realize it. Some even get almost to the point of buying a fish and then ask: "Will this get along O.K. with my neon tetras?"
[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
<strong>How (many) tropical reef fish do you find in the Amazon rain forest exactly?</strong><hr></blockquote>
How much you wanna bet that over 50% of their customers don't know the difference between saltwater and freshwater?
We are so involved in this hobby, we forget the level of knowledge of the average person. Especially one that doesn't live near the ocean.
I remember trying to go through the Denver airport with a sea anemone, and the people there said "What's a sea amenome?" Not one person, All of them - Ticket counter, security checkpoint, boarding gate, etc. I tried to explain what it was and only got blank stares. What finally worked was: "It's like a goldfish."
Not only does the average person not know how to spot an unhealthy fish, many of them would not realize they are looking at a saltwater tank. We regularly get people in our store, which is saltwater-only, that don't realize it. Some even get almost to the point of buying a fish and then ask: "Will this get along O.K. with my neon tetras?"
[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MattM:
<strong>How much you wanna bet that over 50% of their customers don't know the difference between saltwater and freshwater?
Not only does the average person not know how to spot an unhealthy fish, many of them would not realize they are looking at a saltwater tank. We regularly get people in our store, which is saltwater-only, that don't realize it. Some even get almost to the point of buying a fish and then ask: "Will this get along O.K. with my neon tetras?"
[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just a note here, and I hope this doesn't take things too far off-topic. Part of what disturbs me about some ebay sales is that sellers state they are selling live saltwater animals. I shudder to think of what person would have to be informed that the critter in question is alive and requires seawater to survive before purchasing it.
<strong>How much you wanna bet that over 50% of their customers don't know the difference between saltwater and freshwater?
Not only does the average person not know how to spot an unhealthy fish, many of them would not realize they are looking at a saltwater tank. We regularly get people in our store, which is saltwater-only, that don't realize it. Some even get almost to the point of buying a fish and then ask: "Will this get along O.K. with my neon tetras?"
[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just a note here, and I hope this doesn't take things too far off-topic. Part of what disturbs me about some ebay sales is that sellers state they are selling live saltwater animals. I shudder to think of what person would have to be informed that the critter in question is alive and requires seawater to survive before purchasing it.
Ignorance tends to fuel customer satisfaction with these places. It's disheartening, but at the same time gratifying hearing people who are capable of recognizing that these are NOT appropriate ways to keep these animals. As an earlier poster said, it would be interesting to see the general public's reaction if they were made aware of how many animals are being needlessly destroyed for their viewing pleasure. To further compound the issue, I was recently glancing through Don Johnson's article on the threatened plight of coral reefs and associated organisms in the current issue of Aquarium Fish magazine. The ignorance displayed at Rain Forest Cafe establishments echoes, on a smaller scale, the overall lack of awareness and concern most people have to this dire situation.
It's all too unfortunate we tend not to miss something until it is gone.
It's all too unfortunate we tend not to miss something until it is gone.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Check it out, and also, when this thread gets long enough, I'm thinking that Rain Forest Cafe and the local stores and maintenance people should get copies of it.
<hr></blockquote>
That might not be a bad idea. Someone should concisely state the issues for them. Many people outside the hobby have no idea of the issues, nor would they recognise unhealthy conditions no matter how bad they were.
I am sure if my dad were to read this thread he would say "I am not sure what the big deal is."
Ernie
<hr></blockquote>
That might not be a bad idea. Someone should concisely state the issues for them. Many people outside the hobby have no idea of the issues, nor would they recognise unhealthy conditions no matter how bad they were.
I am sure if my dad were to read this thread he would say "I am not sure what the big deal is."
Ernie
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