DSB swap tomorrow

[sunset pizza]

I finally located some southdown and will be switching my crushed coral over to a DSB tomorrow. Anybody have any hints? I was thinking of adding some store bought live sand from the LFS to seed it. Should this be done ahead of time to mix it well or afterwards laid on top? Or should I get a detrivore kit mail order? (I'm leaning toward the detrivores.) If so, who's got the best package? thanks in advance....Matt

btw: it's only a little bitty 30gal FOWLR setup so it's not TOO big a project.

 

[danmhippo]

i would suggest you mix your CC with your new Southdown in a 20/80 ratio. Mix thoroughly, and lay another 1/2 to 1 inch of store bought livesand on top of all sand. The store bought LS is heavier (actually, not heavier, but already bacteria coated) and won't be stirred up easily by in-tank current. Do the mixing and sand laying before you add the water. Important, Important.

I would get a couple nylon stocking and bag up a few socks full of your old CC and leave them in your sump (or maintank, if you don't have a sump). The CC in the stocking will act as temporary Biological filter. Remove the nylon stocking one by one over a good 3 weeks period to prevent nitrite spike.

Good luck.

 

[danmhippo]

Which purpose did adding some CC defeats? What is your view of the purpose having a DSB? Is it for denitrification? Is it for Biological filtration? Is it for Pods and critters production? If it's all of the above, then, you must have some larger grain sands in your DSB setup.

Why?

You all understand how biological filtration and denitrification works in the sand. (If you don't, go do a search on articles in the newly improved Reefs.org article database). The H2S may have developed at the end of the denitrification process. To vent out these H2S in a slow release yet constant intervals, you need the help of critters called bristle worms (or any other forms of worms).

This is where the CCs comes in play. To properly construct tunnels for these worms, you will have to have larger grains of sand to help prevent the tunnle wall from collapsing. Have you ever go to the beach and try to dig a tunnel in the sand? With just sand, tunnel building is VERY difficult.

There are books and articles claiming that H2S production in DSB is not as harmful as we think it is. Yes, if the H2S is released in small quantities by the borrowing activities of the worms in a continuous interval. However, without such activities, H2S build up can lead to a dangerous level. Even with the borrowing activities of the worms, any sudden stirr-up of rocks and corals could result in sudden release of large quantity of H2S and the result could be detrimental. (simply turning over a rock could've trigger such event.)

So adding larger grains of sand, aka CC, is indeed beneficial (in fact, actually imperative) for the long term health of DSB.

BTW, if the purpose is production of pods, then, CC and LR is a much better medium than just pure sand. Moreover, Macro algae gets a better root hold of the subtrate if there are assorted different sizes of sand grains. Algae does not root well in pure sand.

 

[MiNdErAsR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by danmhippo:
<STRONG>Which purpose did adding some CC defeats?...<snipped for sanity's sake></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally disagree. If you've read any of the many articles/posts by Ron Shimek, Mike Kirda, Rob Toonen, etc., concerning deep sandbeds you'd know cc is definitely not a desireable part of a DSB. If you don't believe me, do a search for the names I've mentioned and DSB's. When you're done then read Dearest Mudder....The Importance of Deep Sand, by Ronald L. Shimek This should clear up any misconceptions/misunderstandings.

HTH

 

[jwtrojan44]

I'd have to disagree with the above post. Mixing the sand with the cc defeats the original purpose. Do a total swap, otherwise the cc will eventually work it's way to the top anyway. Your fortunate that your tank is the size it is, and it probably won't be a huge undertaking. Are you planning to move the fish, etc., while you do the change? If so, get rid of all the cc, keep your filters running to clear the inevitable crap that will be floating around. I changed to Southdown several mos. ago, and left the water in the tank. Scooped out the old substrate (dolomite!!) and added the sand over a few days time. It was quite cloudy for about 5 days but man, what a fantastic outcome. I agree with using some of the old substrate in nylon stocking to seed the sand, and placing the LR in thetank will also help the sand to settle. I'd advise against rinsing it, in spite of what you might hear. this only removes a lot of the fine silt that makes this stuff so great. JWT

 

[danmhippo]

I just finished reading the email reply from Dr. Shimek. I apologize for the incorrect information given out (even though that was my personal experiences.

Below are the part of email relevant to this topic:

>I would like to know if I have a old aquarium with CC as substrate and is
in the process of turning it into a DSB with Southdown Sand, would it be beneficial if I mix, say about 15% to 20% of my old CC into the new sand?

#No, maybe 5 % max. The coarse material will "float" on the finer stuff. As
animals rework the sediments, fine particles will move down and around the
coarser material and simply lift it to the top. This has the effect of
creating a thin layer of CC that acts like rip-rap or armor rock, preventing
animal access to the surface. Eventually the fauna under such areas tends
to die and clumping of the substrate is a result.

>I do understand and are concerned about H2S build up in a total anaerobic
zone within the substrate. With the help of various sand burrowing organisms such as bristle worms, gradual releases of H2S on a slow but continuous basis would certainly relieve the H2S build up. However, I know
of proper tunnel building would be difficult to achieve if the substrate
is made up of entirely Southdown sand

# No. That is a misconception. For most of the small sediment dwelling worms
and bugs this finer sediment is either near or at the optimal size, and they
move through it easily. Most of the animals will be in the top 2-3 cm of
sediment, but it is their movements in this zone which cause the water
movements (very slow movements) which distribute materials to the lower
parts of the bed. There is some H2S build up in the sediments, but it is
slight and not really a problem even if liberated into the tank.

>Wouldn't incorporating the existing CC into the new substrate 1) help
the borrowing activities of the microorganisms, 2) aid proper root growth of
macro algae 3) help speedy-up bacterial seeding of the new substrate, and 4) prevent the new sand compacting into a solid rock?

# Macroalgal attachment won't be a problem. They don' t have roots, by the
way, just attachment strands (which look like roots, but have no nutritive
collection function). Bacteria spread through the sediment very rapidly.
It will take very little time at all for the sediment to become colonized.
Addition of the CC will cause, not prevent, clumping.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Ron
.

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: danmhippo ]

 

[sunset pizza]

Here we go! My wife and I are about to get started. Will let you guys know how things turn out!

thanks for all the advice!! The Shimek article was very good.
I'm removing all my CC. going with 4" or so of southdown, putting temporary nylon balls of cc in it to 'seed' it. then I'm also going to get some live sand from a couple stores in the area along with some more detrivores. Stay tuned for updates!!

 

[mosey]

I just did this same project a little while ago and imo lay new sand first then live sand on top. get pantyhose & fill your old substrate in it and lay that on your sand
bed,maybe move it to another location every few days.go ahead and get a critter kit from http://www.ipsf.com/ or http://www.inlandaquatics.com/
good luck

 

[jemichaeliv]

I was curious how everything went as I am getting my southdown this weekend (12 bags) and I plan on change all my tanks from CC to a DSB. The first one I will be doing is a 110 which currently has a 1inch cc substrate up for 2 years.

I want to switch to sand because I want more of the fish that like sandbeds.