I have to quit reefing. Are there any freshwater challenges

mweber · Dec 7, 2001

My wife has always been alergic to shellfish. Recently it has gotten so bad she cannot even be in the same building as my system. I have tried several things and have decided to quit reefing. I may consider keeping the tank and converting it to FW. I am an engineering analitical type who loves DIY projects, chemistry, and all the challenges that go with reefing.

What specific areas of FW are worth considering?

Oh BTW I want to offer a sincere thanks and good bye to all of you who have helped me so much over the past 3 years. I sincerely believe in the afterlife, and hope to meet you face to face there. We will have unlimited time, resources, and no allergies.

Anonymous · Dec 7, 2001

I am sorry you have to leave the hobby. I am algergic to shelfish and it is both good and bad to know that it could get worse.

You could try a planted tank, or try discus or killifish or chiclids. These were all options I looked into before I found reef tanks. Then there was no decision.

B

Anonymous · Dec 7, 2001

Killifish are great for a lot of reasons, not least of which is that killifish hobbyists always complain about how expensive they are... and we're talking for fish mostly under $10

Featherfins (Iratherina werneri, I believe) are another great fish that were only just becoming available as incredibly rare and expensive (~$20 ea) imports right when I was getting out of freshwater in the mid 80's. I understand the price has come down a bit since

Of course, even simple can be great. A nice heavily planted tank stocked with neons and hatchet fish always looks good.

StirCrazy · Dec 7, 2001

hey thats to bad, but I think in fresh water there is something of equal challange.. "Planted tanks" I have one going now and the work never ends and the possabilities are endless. you can take a look at my site to see my URL=http://members.home.net/cyltic/] 37 gal Planted tank[/URL]and sence you have all the ballasts and everthing from a reef all you would have to do is get new bulbs in the right spectrum for plants.. you are already ahead of the game in that department.

a couple links for you to look at are

aquatic gardeners annual contest
and
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/2024/fish.html

StirCrazy

[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

Anonymous · Dec 7, 2001

mweber-

My .02....

Go for African Cichlids with plants-

1) You have the lighting system for the plants. Just change the bulbs.

2) They require a high pH (8.0 or higher I don't remember) and high alkalinity. You know how to maintain that.

3) There are some really colorful Africans

4) They breed really easily

5) They like to have dense populations

6) There is always a demand at LFSs so you can sell the babies back

7) You can keep your DSB (if you have one) and reap the same benefits for nitrate reduction as well as buffering capability.

8) Your skimmer should work in this environment (though not as well)

9) Unlike reefs (ok it can be done but is very difficult)- You would be able to do a completely location specific tank. All plants and fish from the same African lake or river.

10)Everything purchased will be captive bred/grown.

-Greg

scavdog · Dec 7, 2001

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Go for African Cichlids with plants-

<hr></blockquote>

I am no expert, but have kept and bred africans for 4+ years. The only plants that I have been able to keep with these guys are Anubias. Everything else is salad for my Pseudotropheaus morphs. The anubias are more rigid and tend to be slower growing.

What other plants are safe, or should I say African cichlid proof?

danmhippo · Dec 7, 2001

I used to have a rocky (no plants) decored african cichlid tank. If you select your fish species carefully, The tank could really look like a marine tank.

But it's a real waste of equipment if you don't go for planted tank........(start selling your skimmer!)

platylover · Dec 7, 2001

If the allergy is to shellfish only, why can't you just keep shellfish out of the equation?

Anonymous · Dec 7, 2001

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ScavDog:
What other plants are safe, or should I say African cichlid proof?

<hr></blockquote>

I have no clue what the are!

My African tank is a sand bottom with stacked slate cliffs. My LFS has an African tank with plants in it. They are not anubias 'cause I'd recognize them from previous research into hardy plants. OTOH- they may be replaced on a regular basis by the LFS.

Jimmy- I asked the question here earlier this year about a skimmer and FW. The general consensus was that it should work but at a really reduced efficiancy(sp?). Not well enough to justify a skimmer purchase but if you already had one.... Some one here also posted a link from a company that was producing freshwater skimmers.

-Greg

captnpatsg3f · Dec 7, 2001

As you may have learned reefing, freshwater systems also take research in order for the inhabitants to florish in the optimum conditions.

characin.com/home.html
www.thekrib.com
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/
are some nice websites.

One thing to do in the freshwater relm is to pick a type of fish (african cichlids, american cichlids, dwarf cichlids, rainbow fish, kilies, or natives(US)) and devote a whole room of tanks to that type of fish, breeding as many different species. Look around on the web for different ideas.

sorry to put you down but even freshwater has its inaccurate assumptions

1)Go for African Cichlids with plants- false
2)They breed really easily - not all do
3)Your skimmer should work in this environment (though not as well) - it doesThey require a high 4)pH but not necessary - not all (west african dwarfs)
5)Everything purchased will be captive bred/grown. - wilds are in the hobby too
6)You can keep your DSB (if you have one) and reap the same benefits for nitrate reduction as well as buffering capability. - i wouldnt try this(no detritus feeders and not the same bacteria also africans like to roam in the sand making big pits rendering it useless)

7)There is always a demand at LFSs so you can sell the babies back - only because people by them and put them in too dense of populations in too small of a tank and have to comeback for replacements

anubius and java fern and java moss are pritty much african proof

Another suggestion is to pick a species of fish and breed different strainds.

I do beleive the highest and most decorative form of freshwater is the planted discus tank. There are many difficult fish to keep and many difficult plants. Like reefs there are many different ways to do the same thing. Get involved with a local aquarium club is about the best advice to have and read read read.

[email protected]
Patrick Claytor

JRegs · Dec 7, 2001

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ScavDog:

What other plants are safe, or should I say African cichlid proof?

<hr></blockquote>
I've been able to keep Java Fern in addition to Anubias..FWIW

danmhippo · Dec 7, 2001

Greg, I too had a skimmer used on the african cichlid tank before. It's useable under circumstances that the water is hard. It's no where near the efficiency you would expect in a true marine system.

Changing water in a Freshwater tank is so easy that, if it were I, change water everyweek will ensure a hassle free tank. All you need is a Python extension hose hooked up to your faucet!

But, you are right, I take it back about selling the skimmer.

Oh, for Platylover, I can't think of any plant that are cichlid proof either, unless we are talking about a "tree" that is fully rooted all over the bottom of the sand.

Anonymous · Dec 7, 2001

<blockquote>quote

sorry to put you down but even freshwater has its inaccurate assumptions

Not a problem. We're all here to learn.

<blockquote>quote

1)Go for African Cichlids with plants- false

My LFS DOES have African tanks with plants. Like I said they might replace them on a regular basis.

<blockquote>quote

2)They breed really easily - not all do

I've only kept some of the Malawi ones, but they've all reproduced for me.

<blockquote>quote

3)Your skimmer should work in this environment (though not as well) - it doesThey require a high 4)pH but not necessary - not all (west african dwarfs)

I was referring to the rift lake species. I tend to forget that the others exist.

<blockquote>quote

5)Everything purchased will be captive bred/grown. - wilds are in the hobby too

This is the opposite of what I've been told by breeders and my LFS (usually I don't believe what a LFS says but in this case it agrees with me so it must be right

)

<blockquote>quote:<hr>6)You can keep your DSB (if you have one) and reap the same benefits for nitrate reduction as well as buffering capability. - i wouldnt try this(no detritus feeders and not the same bacteria also africans like to roam in the sand making big pits rendering it useless)
<hr></blockquote>

This is not true. I am using a DSB with left over sand from my reef. At first they moved it around, but it's been pretty stable for a year now. I won't say its level. In fact there's a huge mountain in the middle of the tank with the bare glass showing on part of the sides. Bubbles do form and get released into the water column. As to clean up I have a REALLY oversized filter for the tank. The sand looks great. I'll post a picture this weekend. I want to get some reef shots up anyway.

<blockquote>quote

7)There is always a demand at LFSs so you can sell the babies back - only because people by them and put them in too dense of populations in too small of a tank and have to comeback for replacements

Whether it's true or not all the books/online articles talk about how dense the wild populations are and tote this as a plus when keeping them, however, they do always talk about the amount of filtration needed to do this both mechanical and chemical.

-Greg

[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: GDawson ]

Anonymous · Dec 7, 2001

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by JRegs:

I've been able to keep Java Fern in addition to Anubias..FWIW<hr></blockquote>

Ditto to the java fern.

Also, it really depends of the type of cichlid. My africans were ok, but you can't expect say, an oscar to leave your plants alone.

scavdog · Dec 7, 2001

<blockquote>quote

I've been able to keep Java Fern in addition to Anubias..FWIW

I too keep Java moss/fern, but would love to have a planted tank with the cichlids. What is the substrate of choice when doing something like that?

Greg get those pictures up.

liquid · Dec 8, 2001

I would say go with planted aquaria. It's a never ending challenge and some of the tank out there are gorgeous. In the realm of fish, I second the killifish recommendation. I also like Australian / New Guinea rainbowfish in a planted tank (which I've also been doing for the last 8 months). There's quite a variety and they look absolutely stunning when presented in a planted tank:

http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/

Theadfin Rainbowfish (Iriatherina werneri):

are part of the rainbowfish family and when kept in schools they are very pleasing to watch. A couple of my other favorite rainbowfish are:

Glossolepis incisus:

Glossolepis wanamensis:

Melanotaenia boesemani:

Melanotaenia parkinsoni:

Some of the blue-eye species listed on the above website are also very pretty and IMHO are equal in their beauty to the killifish:

Pseudomugil connieae:

Pseudomugil gertrudae:

If you're interested, there's a good Rainbowfish listserv: http://fish.la.asu.edu/archive/rml/index.html

These pictures don't do these fish justice IMHO.

hth

Shane (aka 'liquid')

[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: LiquidShaneo ]

Red Leader · Dec 8, 2001

Definitely go for planted aquariums if you're looking for a challenge that's equal to reefs. Here's my tank after 2 years of learning-

dattack · Dec 8, 2001

I agree that you can put some plants such as anubias and java fern in a brackish environment such as an African cichlid tank. But those plants are not going to thrive for a long time. Eventually over time it will deteriorate because of the high pH required for these cichlids.

Most planted aquaria requires the addition of CO2 to have lush plants and steady growth but because of African's requirements for high KH value and high pH the addition of CO2 to such a tank should be monitored closely because lowering pH in such a tank could ultimately lead to the demise of the fish.

The LFS that do have plants in the Malawi or Tanganikan tanks are only there temporary. Like you said they have to replace them because he they are bought by the customer but usually they will die within months in harsh conditions for them.

And a DSB would be ineffective in a freshwater or brackish saltwater application because there is no "critters" that would do the job of stirring up the sand. A skimmer would be most likely be ineffective too because skimming usually requires a high specific gravity of salt to skim the organic wastes produced by the tank.

The best substrate to use consists of iron for plant growth such as fluorite. Other comes as additive which includes laterite.

Rich-n-poor · Dec 8, 2001

I kept african cichlids for years and loved them. Mine always did best with some live plants in the tank which they did eat.
I fed mine a combination of hikari pellets, the plants and guppies/goldfish.
They are the most colorful freshwater fish you can buy and very hearty IMO. I also managed to combine them with oscars, red devils, and other cichlids easily.
Africans like to dig out nesting areas in the gravel and will unplant your tank in short order.

The most beautiful fresh tank I ever saw was a friends planted discus tank. These have some special requirements and as I recall he was using some type of peat filtering on his system for some reason
_________________
BMW 8 Series

kipreefer · Dec 8, 2001

Discus planted tanks deffinatly are execelent pieces of art. I have read though that lots of plants dont do well in the lower PH and softer water conditions. I know i was looking at a book at Borders that was written by a asian man that has some of the most wonderful planted tanks i have ever seen. His canvas is his aquariums. He had some tips on setting up a planted tank for discuses and gave a list of good plants to use with them. Sorry i dont remember teh name of the book . Maybe someone else here knows the books cover was black and has some abstract world aquarium object on teh front. Teh book i smainly just pictures but it gives you the name of plants that he uses and the fish.

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