More Newbie Questions

[acidbaby1]

OK, being a little leery of the LFS's sales tactics stories here, I decided to ask more questions. I would like eventually, a cool looking shrimp or two, and a cool-looking fish or two in a Low-Tech 10 gallon nano. All they have are Coral-Banded Shrimp. The claws on these shrimp look scary, like they might use them to hurt things. I would like a shrimp to eat Aptasia (sp?) and I thought a skunk cleaner might be nice. Any opinions?
They also had some type of slug or nudibranch that was white, with little blue-grey polyps on it's back that they said were great. Are they? Could they be toxic if they died? If they lived?
They told me Flame Scallops make good aquarium pets. They also advised against stony corals, advised for Hammer corals. Again they told me not to use a heater in the environment where the tank is, and actually it makes sense not to.
Are polyps hardy? They are by far the prettiest.
I like the LFS people, but some of their advice differs from what I read here. I've also read that I should not use much substrate in a reef aquarium, I'm wondering if that is advice for higher tech systems.
Thanks ahead of time.

 

[naesco]

Albert the last thing you want to do is listen to the LFS.
All they want to do is sell you stuff.
Get the advice from asking reefers here.
Under no circumstances do you want to put a flame scallop in your tank or any tank. They starve in our aquariums, die and therefor can cause serious water quality problems in a small tank.

 

[kipreefer]

YOu need to take every ones advice with a grain of salt. On the line of Aptasias a skunk cleaner wont eat them the only shrimp i know of are peppermint shrimps. I have read that alot of nudibranches are tempermental and i wouldnt recomend one unless someone else here has a differnt oppinion. I say no to the Flame scallops they naturally feed on plankton and dont do well in samll tanks even large tanks. I would advice against stonies mainly because of water quality. Mushroom ployps probable aer the hardiest they dont need high light and they reproduce easily. On the lines of substate i would recomend a deep sand bed but i know a LFS were i live is dead set on wet dry filters. They think they do wonders which for keeping ammonia nen existant yes but nitrates no. It also decreases the amount of sand fauna you can grow. I only started reefing about a half a year ago so if anyhting finds anyhting wrong with my statments please tell me.

 

[esmithiii]

OK, my opinions:

Coral banded shrimp: My understanding is that they are reef-safe, but will not eat aptasia. Peppermint shrimp will, but they hide a lot. Skunk cleaners are very cool, but also will not eat aptasia.

Nudibranches should be avoided. They have notoriously short life spans, may starve to death or get sucked into a powerhead.

Flame scallops will also hide, and will most definitely starve to death in a small aquarium like that. They usually starve to death in a large aquarium.

I would get a small heater unless the temperature never drops below 78F, which it probably does.

Hammer corals are fairly hearty. Many other stony corals are not.

I think a 4-6" sand bed is essential.

Hope this helps.

Ernie

 

[esmithiii]

What kind of polyps?

Zooanthids (button polyps) are pretty and very hearty.

The LFS here also is a big fan of wet-dry systems, but I don't think they are necessary if you have a sand bed and plenty of liverock.

There are some good LFSs, but you should do your own research.

E

 

[acidbaby1]

Thanks guys, thanks Ernie, boy you are fast. Could I possibly keep a skunk with a coral-banded?

 

[IBJJ]

I agree with all above. Mushrooms are hardy and come in alot of different colors. Zooanthids could also be an option. I'd go with the cleaner and the peppermint. The cleaners are really cool. Whenever I do maintenence mine swim over and start cleaning my arm or fingers. Avoid the nudibranch...cool looking but it will die. Same with the scallop. Just my opinion. Hope it helps. Enjoy.

 

[IBJJ]

I have two skunks, two blood shrimp and a gold coral banded in my 180. Coral banded, skunk, and some peppermints in my 55. No problems. Just don't mix coral banded and arrow crab. Or multiple coral banded.

 

[Rich-n-poor]

personally I would never put a coral banded in with a skunk/cleaner shrimp in a small tank.

in all likely hood the coral banded will kill him. I have seen them combined but always in larger tanks.

The cleaner will provide the added benefit of some ick protection if you have fish as he will eat the parasites right off them. hence the name cleaner shrimp.

polyups/mushrooms/and leathers are all hearty corals. I want a hammer myself and will probably try one as soon as Im brave enough and some money falls outta the sky

_________________
Mercedes Benz 190

 

[31-2c]

If it were me, I would avoid the hermits and go with snails only. I wish someone had told me this when I started!

 

[dmentnich]

I would have to agree with 31-2c, you should not keep hermits with a DSB. I was reading parts of Dr. Ron Shimek's forum on reefcentral and he seems to be an expert and recomends against hermits as they will eat the "critters." I would tend to think that in a nano reef this would be even worse than in the larger systems. He also recomends culturing macro algae and trimming and throwing it out to export excess nutrients.(To me this seems like a good idea for a low-tech nano reef which I assume has no skimmer. Though somebody may disagree and then listen to them as I have never even considered anything small.) As for a heater, cheap insurance. I have a 75 Gal and listened to the advice of my LFS only in the begining and ended up with many things which are "wrong" and have been fairly lucky so far. I attribute this to the fact that I keep a refugium and do not skim leaving more nutrients and "critters" for the creatures I keep. I do have a coral banded and she is a very nice looking shrimp but VERY agressive. The only reason my peppermints are alive is because they have the room to escape. IBJJ was right on the coral banded/arrow crab, I have both in my tank and nobody gets much rest (as I mentioned I got alot of bad advice at the begining.

) However, the arrow crab is also not what you want in your tank as it eats bristle worms and other "goodies." The link to a board dedicated to nano's is www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=75
Good luck and hopefully somebody with a nano will chime in here.

 

[dmentnich]

I am an insomniac and stay up all night searching the boards for you!

I may have some bad news. I was just reading up on DSB's and according to Dr.Ron (yes, I tend to believe what he says,) a DSB may not work in a 10 Gal. Read www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50696

Sorry- like I said I have never considered a nano, and it may still be possible but I'm not the expert.

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: danny150 ]</p>

 

[Mouse]

If your after a coral banded shrimp for a 10 gallon Nano, may i recomend the Carribean cousin. They are much smaller and not so aggressive. Secondly the white bands usually displayed on the Coral Banded Shrimp are gold on the Carribiean species. Very nice shrimp, but they will eat you bristle worms. But then again in a 10 gallon nano, who cares.

 

[acidbaby1]

Damn, the link won't work for me, and RC won't let me search for it. I'd sure like to have a DSB, and yes, I am using a Skilter.

 

[FishDaddy]

Albert,
Your'e getting some good advice here.......about the only thing the LFS said that makes sense is about stony corals (assuming they meant SPS) unless you have intense lighting and excellent water conditions. SPS are definitely not beginner corals.

A Scarlet Cleaner Lysmata amboenensis) is a great shrimp. I love CB's but, as mentioned, can be problematic in a small tank. The "general rules" change when you apply them to small tanks, just as they change when you switch critters from ocean rules to aquarium rules.

Having a good heater is a safety valve....the object is to keep the temp from falling too much...trying to avoid swings during 24 hours of more than 2 degrees is hard to do without a heater keeping the bottom end up.

A DSB is a valuable component for a small tank..you might want to keep it near 4" as any deeper would cost you valuable water volume in your small tank. Once established with critters and bacteria the DSB will be your primary biofilter. This may take several months or a year or more to become fully mature, but well worth it.

I would avoid buying any animal for control purposes (except snails!) until you have a need for it. You might get lucky and have no Aiptasia. Many such niche critters can become problems, or die, after their purpose is accomplished.

I believe you mentioned that you are going to have a PC lighting...this should be sufficient to keep many corals, including the Hammer.

Please do not try to stock the tank right away. IMHO, it's best to wait several weeks after the tank is set up and cycled to add fish; then several more before adding coral. When you do add, do so one at a time with a few weeks between.
HTH,
Dick

 

[acidbaby1]

Thanks. I will not be stocking anything but a few snails and hermit crabs after my first cycle. I'm just sorting out the info I'm getting so I have a good game plan. The people here are sure helping me a lot.

 

[FishDaddy]

Albert,
In Dr. Shimek's post that Danny referred to; the good Dr. said "My guess is that a tank would need dimensions on the order of about 150 square inches to be useful as nutrient recycler." I have one tank that is an AGA 10 Leader, which is approx. 20x10 which certainly exceeds the 150 square inch criteria.
As I mentioned earlier, you could go a little short with the DSB as you only have so much water volume to work with in a 10. Rob Toonen, another respected writer, has said that even 3-4" can provide an effective DSB, though the deeper the better.
http://theplague.net/erisreef/sandbeds.htm

If it were me setting the tank up, I would go for about a 3-1/2 to 4~" DSB. This will allow you to have as much water volume as possible with a DSB and, IMHO, you will still get substantial Nitrate reducing benefits as well as providing a home for the 'Pods, worms, Nassarius snails, and other beneficial infauna.
This about hermits and snails:
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/library/articleview2.asp?Section=&RecordNo=166
Dick

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: FishDaddy ]</p>

 

[dmentnich]

Sorry- had to sleep, but I'm back. The link will work, but only after you have registered with reefcentral.com I forgot that their expert forums were not really "open" to people unless they were registered. Hope he does not mind if I post his advice.
"My guess is that a tank would need dimensions on the order of about 150 square inches to be useful as nutrient recycler. This depends on the nutrient load of the tank as well as upon the infauna, etc. So.. I would guess something on the order of a 15 gallon tank would be about smallest."
This was his answer to somebody asking what the smallest size tank would be to get the surface area needed for an effective DSB. It may seem strange, but over in the nano area people are talking about putting in overflows to a 5 or 10 Gal. Going this route is slightly more expensive (drilling, return pump, plumbing and the 10 Gal,) but it also gives you a second tank to double the area of sand and if you throw a cheap grow light on it you can grow some good looking macro algae and not have to hide it.
Just my thoughts...

 

[fishfarmer]

I'll throw my 2 cents in regarding a small DSB. I set up a DSB in my 20 gal sump, it's in a middle partition which is about the volume of a 10 gal tank. It's over a year old and has lots of brittle stars, bristle worms, pods, etc. but doesn't have the worm trails and bubbles forming in the bed like I've seen in bigger beds. I set up a DSB in a 120 gal this past April. It seems to be maturing better than the older bed. I see worm trails and lots of bubbles forming a couple inches down.

 

[Gatortailale1]

Hmm, interesting points on DSB in a Nano.

I have a 125 and a 15 nano. I have a 5-7" aragonite/DSB mix. Tank been running since labor day. Everything looks great. I have a tiger cuke to clean the sand, 3 red legs, 8 blues, 1 turbo snail, 5 astera, 5 margarita. Lime green zooanthids (sp?) are growing out of the rock. Fan worms growing; xenia pulsing, coraline growning on back of tank, powerhead and sides of tank in areas I let it grow. I got a coral banded in there too. I would agree with mouse that it has gotten rather big for the tank.

If you want a 3rd opinion, you could call long distance or email them, to my LFS and ask for Scott. He has a marine biology degree from univ. of Miami and has been keeping nano's for 11 years.

Check out bio under "meet us" section on this URL
Marine Scene - LFS

I found an Eclipse 15 gal. tank setup. I took out the bio-wheel and installed a PC smartlight kit from Championlighting.com It has the same footprint as a 10 gal, but gives you height to make a DSB and still allow for water volume.

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Gatortailale ]</p>