Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I was adding the vinegar to my tank below the spec. stated by bbriefcase. For quite a while I loved it. But after some time it began to cloud the water. How do I know it was the cause. It only happened after I began dripping. And after the drip was over for several hours the tank would begin to clear. Wait a day it would be totally clear. Then drip=cloudy water. This did not effect any of the species in the tank. Today I just drip the kalk. No cloudy water since the vinegar kalk days. I wish I knew the cause and affect of the vinegar kalk drip, cause I would love to go back to it. It saved a lot of money on additives. But really hated the cloudy water. By the way I was using Mrs. Wages pickling lime, and still am.
Why add vinegar to kalk
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Reefquest -- The way that too much Calcium actually ends up lowering Calcium levels is complex. Here's a poor but still useful layman's explanation:
Think of Calcium in your tank like humidity in the air.
Air can support 60% relative humidity or 80% or even 99% indefinately. But once you exceed 100% it rains liquid water, and after the rain the humidity is very low again.
So, in the same way tank water can support Calcium levels below 100% saturation forever, but raise the level to saturation levels or above (what scientists call "super-saturated") and you can get sudden massive Calcium precip as particles of Calcium Carbonate (sand, essentially). The dreaded Calcium snowstorm in your tank....
Keep Calcium levels around 400-500ppm and you won't have to worry about precip.
If you want to learn about the real details of how very high Calcium levels can cause Calcium precipitation, it has to do with a couple of mechanisms. One is actually a bit like rain -- it has to do with nucleation of solid Calcium Carbonate and subsequent deposition of Calcium solids from solution onto the nucleii. The other mechanism has to do with the role of Magnesium in keeping Calcium in solution by "poisoning" the deposition of Calcium ions onto the surface of Calcium Carbonate particles. As you probably know, adequate Magnesium is a big part of keeping Calcium levels up in the aquarium.
There are other mechanisms and theories, but it's not necessary to know the details as long as you stick to conventional levels of Calcium and Alk and don't drip way too much Kalk.
Smikin reefer -- I'd be interested in knowing your results wrt clouding if you tried the same thing again but with pure lab grade Calcium Hydroxide instead of the Pickling Lime.
jethro -- Yes, Vinegar is an acid, but we only use a little bit, and it is totally neutralized in the reaction with the Calcium Hydroxide so no acid gets in the aquarium. Lowering the pH of the Kalk solution a bit before dripping is actually a good thing, as long as we stay above 8.3.
Think of Calcium in your tank like humidity in the air.
Air can support 60% relative humidity or 80% or even 99% indefinately. But once you exceed 100% it rains liquid water, and after the rain the humidity is very low again.
So, in the same way tank water can support Calcium levels below 100% saturation forever, but raise the level to saturation levels or above (what scientists call "super-saturated") and you can get sudden massive Calcium precip as particles of Calcium Carbonate (sand, essentially). The dreaded Calcium snowstorm in your tank....
Keep Calcium levels around 400-500ppm and you won't have to worry about precip.
If you want to learn about the real details of how very high Calcium levels can cause Calcium precipitation, it has to do with a couple of mechanisms. One is actually a bit like rain -- it has to do with nucleation of solid Calcium Carbonate and subsequent deposition of Calcium solids from solution onto the nucleii. The other mechanism has to do with the role of Magnesium in keeping Calcium in solution by "poisoning" the deposition of Calcium ions onto the surface of Calcium Carbonate particles. As you probably know, adequate Magnesium is a big part of keeping Calcium levels up in the aquarium.
There are other mechanisms and theories, but it's not necessary to know the details as long as you stick to conventional levels of Calcium and Alk and don't drip way too much Kalk.
Smikin reefer -- I'd be interested in knowing your results wrt clouding if you tried the same thing again but with pure lab grade Calcium Hydroxide instead of the Pickling Lime.
jethro -- Yes, Vinegar is an acid, but we only use a little bit, and it is totally neutralized in the reaction with the Calcium Hydroxide so no acid gets in the aquarium. Lowering the pH of the Kalk solution a bit before dripping is actually a good thing, as long as we stay above 8.3.
Ahhh, so that's why rain is also called precipitation
Just kidding. Thank you for the layman's explaination. It's as clear as recently stirred kalkwasser.
O.K. weak pun, but I do think it makes sense now...at least enough sense to comfortably continue maintaining calc & alk with kalk. Thank you BReefCase!
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
OK, understand that vinegar helps to increase the amounts cal. I dose kalk 247, my cal reads 420, however my alk is 7.7dkh which is sort of low. Would the only way to raise my alk be to add more buffer or add more kalk. Currently adding one and a half teaspoons per gallon into a five galloon jug which will last for six days. The tank has been running for two and a half months and contain a few sps and one clam. Not adding any livestock until the tank perameters stablize. The temp is 78 and sal 1.023
mgk65, I monitar my calcium levels very closley. I have never let my calcium get above 450ppm.
breifcase, mabe I will buy some at my LFS just to see what the results are. This is a reply from Randy in a previous post.
"The acetate added could easily be driving bacteria growth, clouding the water.
Others have reported unusual growth forms of things in the tank when using vinegar, and this may just be your own personal bacterial bloom! There is no reason to assume that because you had this problem, that others should, and no reason to think that because some people did not, you should not.
First, you'd need the right species of bacteria (or other microorganism) in the water to "bloom". Then you'd need every other nutrient required for a bloom (nitrogen, phosphorus, etc.). Every tank will have different amounts of all of these things, and may be more or less inclined to bloom even in the presence of excess acetate.
FWIW, if the solution that you are adding contains only limewater and clean vinegar and is CLEAR, there should be no problematic chemical reactions that would cause a precipitate."
--------------------
Randy Holmes-Farley
breifcase, mabe I will buy some at my LFS just to see what the results are. This is a reply from Randy in a previous post.
"The acetate added could easily be driving bacteria growth, clouding the water.
Others have reported unusual growth forms of things in the tank when using vinegar, and this may just be your own personal bacterial bloom! There is no reason to assume that because you had this problem, that others should, and no reason to think that because some people did not, you should not.
First, you'd need the right species of bacteria (or other microorganism) in the water to "bloom". Then you'd need every other nutrient required for a bloom (nitrogen, phosphorus, etc.). Every tank will have different amounts of all of these things, and may be more or less inclined to bloom even in the presence of excess acetate.
FWIW, if the solution that you are adding contains only limewater and clean vinegar and is CLEAR, there should be no problematic chemical reactions that would cause a precipitate."
--------------------
Randy Holmes-Farley
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