Please read and temporarily boycott eBay!

[swreefer]

I'll jump in here. I don't think E-Bay should allow the sale of corals since they are animals. I also think that corals should never sit in bags for 2 to 3 days to save on shipping costs. That being said, I live in CT and Just Phish is a LFS. Here is their website in case anyone wanted to contact them.
http://www.justphish.com/index.htm

 

[JT]

Ahh, I love online forums..

First off, my only beef is what was already said in my letter to ebay. Period.

eBay has created rules governing the sale of animals and products that use animal products. Two of the rules are as follows:

"Live Animals - Live animals and pets may not be listed on eBay."

"Other Animal Products - Endangered or protected species, or any part of any endangered or protected species may not be listed on eBay."

eBay has created these rules because they know they can't properly police these types of sales. However, as stated in my original post, eBay does not recognize corals as an animal, let alone a protected species. Corals are protected animals as listed in CITES App. II. There are other online auction houses, such as aquabid.com, where this practice is acceptable. Fine. I have no problem with this.

I don't care, well yes I do but that's beyond the point of this topic, that Roes Marine is selling Goniopora. That is not my call to make. I am not the Reef Police nor do I want to be. The only reason I referenced goniopra in my original post was to give they people reading my email at eBay and example to look at.

- JT

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: JT ]</p>

 

[31-2c]

I sent a complaint to ebay as well. I noticed that someone is selling live fish on ebay as well. I received a message back that this is not considered a violation because fish can be safely shipped. They told me that the only animals they ban are things that could "get loose" during shipping.

There is someone right now auctioning Angelfish!

 

[Anonymous]

Hello swreefer and 31-2c, I am wondering. Why don't you think they should be allowed to be sold on Ebay? What about them being up for auction or listed in an ebay store makes it any different than being listed on my website or anyone elses? If ebay took on a new name of FFExpress, or Marine Depot, would it still be wrong in your eyes? I really don't understand where you folks are coming from and I'd really like to.

I can see the complaint about the place willing to send them via 2 day or even three day via USPS (and btw since the events of 11sept, usps will no longer accept live animals which will need to be delivered within a 72 hour period. That pretty much limits them to crickets and worms. How this guy is doing that is beyond me) then take that up with that place. But what does ebay have to do with the shipping terms that a company places on their goods? Again I fail to see why it's so evil to places items for sale on ebay with those terms, but you guys don't complain to the company who states those same terms on their website. Suddenly the fact they are willing to ship three day isn't so bad, it's the fact they listed it on ebay.

If one of you guys can explain without taking offense, then I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
JP
Just Phish

[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: JustPhish ]</p>

 

[Anonymous]

OK whirley, very good point. If they say no they should enforce it. I am going to post it here seeing as how many people just won't make the trek to the other board to read it there. Once I saw this come up I emailed Ebay immediately see if anyone wants to see the letter I sent them let me know and I'll show you.

Here's their reply on the matter....

Hello JP,

Thank you for writing eBay.

I have taken a look at your past email history with us, as well as
viewed the items we have removed in the past, and I believe I can answer
your questions.

To begin with, the items of yours we have removed in the past were not
ended because of the actual items themselves. You did have some auctions
for live coral that were removed, but they were taken for Links and Fee
Circumvention violations, not because we disallow coral.

At this point, we do allow live coral and certain invertebrate marine
animals (such as small fish and snails) to be listed. Typically, small
marine animals that are intended for an aquarium would be okay to list.

I hope this answers your questions. Please feel free to reply to this
message and I'll be glad to answer further questions if you have them.

Again, thank you for taking the time to write and I appreciate your
continued help in keeping eBay a safe and fair place to trade!

Regards,

Eddy
eBay Community Watch
______________________________

eBay
Your Personal Trading Community (tm)

*******************************************


This is the same gentleman that replied to JT when he wrote in. I believe he did not tell JT the auctions were in violation and then told him if he wanted to report something he felt should not be auctioned to follow a posted url and submit it there. Now JT said he does not care corals are sold on ebay, instead his only issue is that they are not enforcing their own rules. Well that issue is dead especially after Ebays reply.

So now what's the beef??

Thanks,
JP
Just Phish

 

[newreefman1]

If anyone read throughout the thread on ReefCentral it was closed in the end on behalf of JT.

hmmmmmmmmmm.


Yes corals are animals. I dont think that should be debated...its a fact...not a theory.

Yes I suppose we know ebays policy(if you went to read it)
and
Yes, we see what they have said courtesy of JT and JP=======

Obviously, they arent going to do anything now unless enough suggestions come there way to cancel it. Heres my point I suppose ...

Although there may be 1,2, 3 or a few more irresponsible sellers on ebay, there are a few reputable ones as well. This unfortunately isnt so in the retail LFS store. Its more like 1 good one for every 5 bad ones. Does it mean its ok because its just a numbers game? Just like the banning arguements so commonly posted...is it ok to kill 1000 groupers rather than 1000 butterfly fish. etc. All irresponsible stores should be protested...not all stores period cause some are bad. Rather than protest ebay...how about protest the ignorant fools that sell corals with no description, or incorrect terminology, etc....


Anyways, if ebay changes their "official" policy on their terms page to allow corals? Does that make anyone happier here? Originally, jt seemed to want just that..but that really wasnt the intent of this page.
It was it seems to attack either ebay, or coral distributors on ebay for some reason or another(of which I wont speculate).

JMHO and yes harrison...I think I get sucked in for the hell of it sometimes too

 

[Anonymous]

What is Mary's opinion on this?

Just wondering.

Secondly,E-bay says it does not allow the sale of animals,then they should not allow the sale of corals. It is the rule. They made it and should abide by it. If they had no such rule then corals would be fare game. Justphish may be a great supplier,however,he/she is breaking the rules. Justphish knows the policy and attempts to justify it because E-bay says it is OK. I'll bet that that putz from E-bay knows not one thing about the husbandry of corals,or even snails for that matter. So,by saying that E-bay e-mailed that message means SQUAT. Justphish knows corals are animals and sells them under the no animals rule anyway. Which leads me to believe justphish only cares about the Benjamins.

Yes it seems anyone who sells them is the real culprit. E-bay is a conspirator to this bad practice.

But,many LFS and Onliners are just as guilty of bad practice. But they are not guilty of breaking the "rules".

 

[swreefer]

JustPhish,

I think I may have been vague on my post.

I don't think E-bay should allow the sale of corals since they are animals and I don't think that shipping them for 2-3 days is good. They should go overnite.

My reference to you was to clarify that you were a LFS and not an individual. It seems that the majority of complaints are regarding individuals. Not actual businesses who would have extra frags from their stock to sell.

Some of the corals sold on E-Bay are illegally collected by individuals (I seriously doubt a business would take that chance) or the people posting the item have no idea how to take care of it.

Hopefully I made this post a little clearer.

 

[Anonymous]

Anemone, if Ebay themselves told me that they know corals are animals, and that they do not fall under their rule, what am I doing wrong? As I stated before, I was not aware of that rule at any point of my one year selling extras on ebay. Once I saw this thread I immediately emailed ebay and asked them to clarify and even asked them to change their terms so they are not so broad. They replied that I am not in violation of anything. So why do you keep saying I am? They make/made their rules and they have said I am not breaking them. What more am I supposed to do?

Also, you say that the putz probably has no idea what care is involved or needed for corals. What difference does it make if he does or doesn't? All he had to do was find out if the rules were being broken and relay the information that either yes they were, or no they weren't. Where does his expertise come into play in the facts?

Do the inspectors at the airport where your critters came into country need to know how to care for that goniopora that came in with no cites papers? Or do they simply say this is not supposed to be here and confiscate it? Why in the world wouldf they have to know how to take care of it to decide whether or not an importer is breaking the rules?

Your problem with me is that I sell critters on ebay even though they say it's ok for me to? Where is the sense in that? Also, if I was in it just for the jingle, I wouldn't care about the health of my corals, I would not care if I had any repeat business, and I would never invest as much time as I do in my customer service. If you want to question my motives, at least read all my posts on the matter and then decide.

Swreefer, thanks for the try, but I am still confused. Why should ebay not allow the sale of corals simply because they are animals? Put their rules aside, hopefully they'll make it clearer, but let's say they do....again how is ebay different than any mail order store out there? Just because they sell things in auction format they should not allow animals? That's where I am getting hung up on your view. You said Ebay should not be allowed to sell animals ans I am asking exactly why do you say that.

Thanks again,
JP
Just Phish :wavehand:

 

[naesco]

Phish do you or did you sell gonipora?

 

[swreefer]

Since their rules are NO animals, then corals should not be allowed since they are animals.

My problem is they are setting a double standard.

Buying thru E-Bay is basically the same as via MO except for the shipping difference. No MO company is going to send you corals via ground shipment that could take a few days. They are going to send it overnite. With E-Bay, some people are going to try and save costs on shipping at the expense of the animal. E-Bay has no enforcement over this and will not since they don't consider corals to be living animals. One other complaint I have is that with a company you have some type of recourse if the coral arrives dead or dying. You have nothing with E-Bay (provided you even recieve the item).

They would never allow a dog to be sold online but they allow corals. Granted there is a difference but they are still both animals.

Even if there is a concientious seller posting corals for sale (BTW, I saw that your add had the requirements needed for the Acro) they should not be allowed to until E-Bay changes their policy.

To sum it up, I don't have a problem with you selling corals, I have a problem with the double standard E-Bay uses.

 

[pez]

Why is everyone making such a big issue out of this? Yes, E-Bay is violating their own rule - they have admitted as much. Some unscrupulous people sell corals and ship them USPS "expecting" them to arrive OK with "no guarantee". This is no different than some of the pet stores I have seen. The only true difference between Harbor Aquatics, a place which I respect very highly, and *some* of the people selling corals on e-bay, is the philosophy behind the coral sale. They *both* sell for profit, but one of them would actually like to coral to arrive alive and thrive. The other does not care, as $$ is only objective. I completely understand where JT is coming from, but if the ONLY argument here is that E-Bay is ignoring their own rule, then I see no argument. They can just as easily change the rules and pull the rug out from underneath JT's whole argument.
Please stay rational.

-T

 

[Chucker]

Closed per request of the original poster.

 

[whirley]

OK, my 2 cents.

I think ebay shouldn't sell corals because of Ebay's policy on selling animals. Corals ARE animals. And if it's stated that sellers can not sell animals on thier website, they should enforce it.

whirley