Slamming Experts and Hobbyist

scooterr · Mar 28, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by SPC:
Posted by pez:
Posting "nice tank"

Actually thats just common courtesy. If a person has spent the time to research and set up a reef tank and then posts pictures of their tank, the least I can do is acknowledge their efforts. Does it further the hobby, I think so. By showing that person that you appreciate their efforts they will be inclined to continue on this same path and hopefully educate others they come in contact with.
Steve<hr></blockquote>

i agree with Steve

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: scooterr ]

Mouse · Mar 28, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Although I agree with your post (mostly), I don't think the number of posts has anything to do with:

1) how much you contribute to the general discussion here

<hr></blockquote>

I would have thought that the number of posts was decidedly indicative of how much you contribute, if nothing else.

pez · Mar 28, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by EmilyB:

Number of posts means {squat} (well, OBVIOUSLY...

)<hr></blockquote>

Ha! Very funny...

E - I got your point; I was just making a counter point. Clearly he was just stirring things up, he hasn't been back.

Bodine · Mar 28, 2002

esmithiii wrote
As for quips, etc I think if you look at my posts you will see that very few are done in the sump, and the majority are responding to questions, many if them questions I have answered many times before.

This was in no way directed at you and was intended as humor.....kinda lazy on the smilleys.....next time I will add a few

Also if tazz is so good.. put-up....lets see that puppy and let me judge for myself....thats all it meant

You are always one of the first to reply and try to help.....KUDOS.....

Sorry if I offended you
_________________________________
Vic
San Antonio Texas

[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bodine ]

Jacqui · Mar 28, 2002

Opinions are like....well we all know the old saying.
We need to keep in mind that everyone is trying to help, just posting what has worked for them. We all have different set ups and are trying to accomplish the same thing, keeping a little piece of God's creation in our homes. Most posts contain " IMO or IMHO" because that is wht they are...opinions.
Have you ever encountered a person who leaves you thinking...boy am I glad I am not married to them? Well, that is what I think sometimes when I read posts that belittle others. It would be so much kinder to just state that has never worked for you...but this is what did.
It costs nothing to be nice. IMHO.

Anonymous · Mar 28, 2002

smokie · Mar 28, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by AnotherGoldenTeapot:
Care is needed to avoid confusing opinion with fact.

Some people's views are wrong. Some people's views fit within a window of what some would consider equivalently correct.

If someone is categorically wrong then you should tell them explicitly. However, if it transpires that you've misunderstood the situation then you'll need to back off with tail between legs - everyone makes mistakes.

For example, adding 100 grams of copper sulphate to a reef tank is not a good way to maintian pH. That belief does not fall within the range of acceptable opinion.<hr></blockquote>

smokie · Mar 28, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by AnotherGoldenTeapot:
Care is needed to avoid confusing opinion with fact.

Some people's views are wrong. Some people's views fit within a window of what some would consider equivalently correct.

If someone is categorically wrong then you should tell them explicitly. However, if it transpires that you've misunderstood the situation then you'll need to back off with tail between legs - everyone makes mistakes.

For example, adding 100 grams of copper sulphate to a reef tank is not a good way to maintian pH. That belief does not fall within the range of acceptable opinion.<hr></blockquote>

Not everyone conforms to the range of acceptable opinion,some people prefer to form their own opinions.
If everyone conformed to "acceptable opinion"
and never tried new and innovative things then the world would become a boring place to be,there would be no progress and each time you went to buy something at the store it would be the same crap everytime.

danmhippo · Mar 28, 2002

I totally agree with E that if one seldom participates, why criticize? Since this is the only board I call home, when I venture to other boards (RC, seahorse.org...etc) I tried only offering helps but the pickings.

BTW, my real name means squat.......Everyone is calling me Dan now.....

Jimmy

esmithiii · Mar 28, 2002

Guys, I am soooo offended, that I will never post again on this board.

As if. I can quit any time, really I can. I am not addicted. Really.

Seriously Pez, Bodine, no offense taken.

Kim D · Mar 29, 2002

I probably don't count either, since I don't have many posts, but here is my .02. Looking at it from a new-to-the board perspective, this, and other forums, can be very intimidating to new people. The amount of flaming that goes on is incredible. Although it would not stop me from asking a question, I think that it would inhibit others from posting. I guess the question is whether this is somewhere where people can go to learn, or just a social circle where the "in" crowd can go and hang out?

esmithiii · Mar 29, 2002

<blockquote>quote

I probably don't count either, since I don't have many posts

Of course you count. I think you missed the point about number of posts too. We are simply saying that for someone who has been on this board for 2 years and has posted less than twice a month he/she sure is complaining a lot about things. If Tazz is so knowlegable, why not contribute? It certainly isn't for fear of being flamed or he/she would not have started this thread.

FWIW I think there are many people on this board that give input/advice freely- often answering the same question repeatedly, often looing up old threads and linking themb because the person asking the question doesn't know how to use the search feature, at times hosting pictures for those who don't know how or don't have a place to host them, often taking pictures of livestock, equipment or food upon request to answer questions. These are the same people that Tazz is complaining about!

Flaming usually atarts as a result of one of the following situations:

<ul type="square">[*] Newbie does something dumb without researching first and kills livestock[*] Reefer that should know better buys live stock without researching it[*] Reefer who does know better buys something he/she shouldn't and then says "I just couldn't help myself..." or "It was going to die anyway"[*] Newbie asks for advice, questions every response and in the end ignores advice corroborated by all posters[*] Newbie challenges a generally held technique and then says something to the effect that "how can we have progress without challenging tenents?"[*] Someone brings up politics[*] Someone brings up religion[*] Someone posts about how this hobby is killing the world's reefs[*] Someone intentionally posts a thread (much like this one) intended to bring out the worst in people.
[/list]

I have done my share of flaming. Should I be more patient and flame less? Probably. Is this board a hot-bed of dissention? No.

Ernie

SPC · Mar 29, 2002

Posted by Kim:
I guess the question is whether this is somewhere where people can go to learn,

-It is definately a place to learn. If there are people who have not learned from this board then they didn't come here to learn anything to begin with.

or just a social circle where the "in" crowd can go and hang out?

-You would need to explain this further for me to understand what point you are trying to make. Everyday there are new people who come to this board, and everyday they are givin great advice from caring hobbiest. I think you might be confusing once again people who are trying to learn with those who are not.
Steve

npaden · Mar 29, 2002

I think the wide variety of opinions on many of our reef keeping methods is a fact of life. Anyone wanting a "bullet-proof" reef is in for some suprises down the road. This is not a simple hobby where you throw some water in a glass box and add some light and corals and everything works perfect.

I think the wide variety of methods does confuse new people. There is not a "right" way. With that said there are some better ways and probably some wrong ways. Heh, I'm confusing myself!

Oh well, newbies really need a mentor that can help them individually. Helping on the boards is great but having an experienced reefer there in person is what new people really need.

FWIW, Nathan

esmithiii · Mar 29, 2002

<blockquote>quote

I feel that arguing constructively, in context, and on topic can be very productive as far as new ideas that can lead to advancements in husbandry techniques.

Amen.

Kim D · Mar 29, 2002

Speaking again as one who is new to this site, I meant that it seems to be quite cliqueish...that is what I meant about the socialization aspect. Which is understandable also when you have a lot of the same people posting...you build a camraderie.
The point I would like to make is that I have seen SO many nasty comments on this board since I joined. I think that maybe some more patience and kindness is in order. Although I am new here, I have spent a lot of time on seahorse.org, so I know about stupid and repetative questions. I have read about people doing WILDLY stupid things. However, I believe that there are other ways to inform people without setting them on fire!!!
Now I am going to get off my soapbox....I would like to add that other than the flaming, this site is great-- packed full of good info.

Anonymous · Mar 30, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr>posted by TazzBear:
EVERYONE has an opinion and believe it or not, they know what they are talking about<hr></blockquote>
This is far from axiomatically true.
<blockquote>quote:<hr>posted by TazzBear:
When you say "They don't know what they are talking about" you are belittling our entire industry.<hr></blockquote>
Hardly, just make sure that person actually doesn't know what they are talking about before you are so forward, and support what you have to say adequetely

. Besides that, I feel that arguing constructively, in context, and on topic can be very productive as far as new ideas that can lead to advancements in husbandry techniques. This is the ultimate goal right? I mean, we're here educating ourselves to make a more adequete ecosystem for the animals we keep captive, yes?
<blockquote>quote:<hr>posted by TazzBear:
So next time you want to bad mouth a reef keeper all you are doing is SLAMMING someone and belittling our hobby and fellow hobbyist. <hr></blockquote>
I agree... the whole trick is to, if you have the evidence and intent to be constructive, "badmouth" the reef keeper's methods (with AMPLE support, and ALWAYS suggestions for improvement)

, NEVER the reef keeper whose intentions are to provide adequate health and husbandry for their organisms.

MontanaRocknReefer · Mar 30, 2002

Who would value any opinions from a dude from "The Middle of Nowhere" Montana? I have over 2,000 postings on another board and it does not make me an expert as alot of the posting is about ordinary everyday living and having some fun on the way to learning about reef keeping!
Our contributions to a forum are made through knowledge and years of experience with our reef tank, a newbie wanted to get where alot of us are at, but most importantly to learn and find better ways to care for our tank inhabitants and to share a common love for this hobby!
So what ever level we are at in this hobby we are here to contribute in any way we can no matter how small that contribution may be. Number of postings, location of hobbyists, etc plays no part in what we are trying to achieve in making this hobby the best that it can be!
Wow that was a mouth full!! Johnny

SPC · Mar 30, 2002

Posted by Johnny:
Who would value any opinions from a dude from "The Middle of Nowhere" Montana?

I value Dr Ron's opinion

.
Steve

pez · Mar 30, 2002

I consider myself an expert at everyday living

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