"Aragocrete" Live Rock manufacturing

[Reef Fever]

I am preparing to try some homemade rock using one part concrete and about 5 parts Aragonite sand. I am interested in arches and caves that will fit my concepts of the shapes that I want in my tank while keeping a small footprint actually touching the bottom. It seems to me that some custom shaped things will be really nice combined with the large pieces of live rock that I already have, and I can make a foundation that is structurally desirable. I know that the main danger seems to be making sure it is "cured" in fresh water that is changed often for about 6 weeks.

How many of you have tried this, and how happy were you with the results? I have read many articles about this, including Tom Miller and GARF, and it sounds promising.

 

[jamesw]

Hi Mr. Fever,

I'm a civil engineer and I wrote the relevant paragraph in Tom Miller's article on "arragocrete." I think he might have even cited me in his article.

Specifically, what would you like to know?

Cheers
James

 

[Reef Fever]

Well, I have the styrofoam fish box to use for my beach box, I just bought 30 lbs of CaribSea coarse Aragonite/ crushed shell-type mix, and a 30 lb. bag of the CaribSea fine sand.

Do I use ONLY the fine sand to mix the 'crete with, and the thicker stuff in my beach-box? That is what I was picturing.

Also, I saw in a couple of places where some people had mixed pasta in to create porous pockets for bacteria to party in later- I guess there is no harm in any leftover noodles trapped in pockets?

I am planning on making several three-legged foundation pieces, and putting my existing coralline-plastered live rocks on top of some of these to showcase them, with some kewl caves and arches springing off.

How heavy are these rocks in comparison, it seems that it would be MUCH lighter than reef rock?

Is this really as easy as it looks? I plan to make some smaller arches to populate with my breeding stock to try to market to the LFS, as my mushroom planting is really working well.

 

[jamesw]

Well...hmm.

Why don't you just get some quality Fiji rock instead?

I can see using artificial rock for "plugs" for mounting frags and such. It's easy to pour into dixie cups, etc. But why would you want to use concrete with zero life on it when you can get beautiful, biodiverse, natural liverock instead?

Cheers
James

 

[Mouse]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[scooterr]

not to mention keeping bulldozers out of the reefs...

 

[liquid]

They don't use bulldozers to mine liverock scooterr. Per Mary Middlebrook's How Animals Get From the Wild Reef To Your Reef given on 23rd September, 2001:

How and where is Live Rock collected?

The majority of live rock currently comes out of Fiji, with countries such as Marshall Islands, Indonesia, and Vanuatu coming in a distant second. the "how" varies from region to region I'm sure. I can only speak about what i have experience with. I have gone to fiji and seen how my collectors collect rock. It comes from water that is anywhere from 4'-6' deep. they snorkel down, pick up the piece, and put it in the boat. you can see pictures of this at http://www.reefsource.com/ . I am going to be receiving a paper in a few weeks that details a study done in Fiji showing that live rock is a renewable resource. the rock my guys were collecting was broken off from the main reef during storms and washed to the area behind the reef (an area miles long/wide). rock as far as the eye could see. it was mind boggling!

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/m_ ... 92301.html

The *only* reason I see that anyone would want to make their own rock is to save $$$. You get no diversity on aragocrete and that has it's plusses and minuses. On the positive side, you get cheap rock, no nuisance crirtters like flatworms or aiptasia, and you can build it into various shapes. On the negative side, it really does look like fake rock and you get no beneficial life on your rock like worms, snails, coralline algae, hitchkiking critters, and you have to let the biological component of the rock build up.

I think the aragocrete idea has its place, but my personal taste is that I don't like how it looks in a display tank.

Reef Fever: Personally, I'd steer clear of adding pasta to the recipe. That has to rot/dissolve out of the rock before you can use it. Other than that, the sky's the limit on how you want to mix it. Play around with a couple mixes and see what seems to be the most aesthetically pleasing. Depending on your mix, your resulting rock can be more/less/the same density as live rock. It's really hard to say until you actually try it. Just make sure you follow the directions and soak the rock well until the pH levels out.

My $0.02.

Shane

 

[wade1]

I've taken the time to make my own rock before... even have about 50 lbs of it in my current 150g tank. Its indistinguishable from natural rock now that the coralline and critters have populated it. There are a couple of point though to consider:

1- curing time. It took mine 8 months to stop leaching enough to put in my sump. And another 4 to get life on it.
2- brittleness. This stuff turns very brittle if you use a larger diameter substrate (ie- crushed coral vs sand).

Those were the only 2 real drawbacks I noted. Just don't expect miracles when it comes to it becoming colonized with all the various reef critters. And I would not use it for rock on the topmost reef except when you need a cool looking arch.

Wade

 

[Rabbit]

I actually really like making the stuff. You can design what you want, and I could make small interesting pieces for my 20 gallon.

I find, yes the fresh rock is brittle, but it gets very, very strong over time. You can break in your hands the first few days, but after curing it's pretty hard. After a year, it's super hard.

I like to mix shells and other things in there. Remember DO NOT make is consistent! Have a bunch of shells in your 'mold' and none in another part, it makes if varied and more interesting.

It's almost all homemade rock. It took about 6 weeks to cure. Only one small piece of live rock is in the tank. See it for yourself:, here is a link to my tank:

http://www.maslac.org/profile_drdaniel.html

Also, I find it very helpful to glue small pieces of coroline in various places. Sometimes it takes a while to get the coraline started.

Anyway, give it a try! Let me know if you have any more questions,

David Roman

Hop, hop, hop,

 

[fishfarmer]

Nice Pics David. I can't see the rock, all those damn corals are in the way :wink:.

 

[Rabbit]

Tee hee he,

Hey, well that's the idea! I have some pics of everything growing in, give me some time and I make a page and post some of them.

DRD

 

[fmzamoranod]

Hey, there is another reason.... LR availability. Where I live.. it is very hard to get high quality stuff. Plus, you can do "whatever" you want as opposed of keep looking for the "right" size, form, footprint, etc...

So.. Here my questions:

1. James, I am concerned about the possible chemical impact on the tank. Is there an "special" cement being used to avoid this? I've heard that regular Portland cement is "attacked" by salt water, which in turns results in it releasing stuff into the watter. 8O

2. If I use other types of substrate (than aragonite), does it matter? I am considering using crushed coral for the "sand box" where I plan to pour the mix, so that is what would cover the surface of the rocks. :wink:

3. For the mix I am planning on using white silica sand, which is what I can get around here. Is that a problem???? :?: I know that some people is afraid of silica sand for the possibility of silice feeding algae blooms. However, I have also read recent extensive coverage on that not being a real problem.

Thanks!!!

 

[rikacarl]

I tired this and I think I used too much fine sand because my rock turned our very heavy and dense. So I never used it, it is still sitting in a bucket somewhere. I plan on trying it out now that we moved, maybe I will set up a small tank just to cure it in.

If I did it again I would use more shells and large # sand. And I would make more interesting shaped. My rocks look like donuts or plates. :roll:

 

[Richard Rajski]

Jamesw said; 'But why would you want to use concrete with zero life on it when you can get beautiful, biodiverse, natural liverock instead?'


LiquidShaneo said:'you get no beneficial life on your rock like worms, snails, coralline algae, hitchkiking critters, and you have to let the biological component of the rock build up.'

The above is only true if you don't put any 'seed live rock' into your tank. However, if you do, you can expect anything that would survive in live rock in a reef tank to collonise your cement rock.

I set up a tank two and a half years ago using cement rock and a few small pieces of live rock. The cement rock is now indistiguishable from natural live rock and the tank is full of your usual live rock critters. I am very pleased with my cement rock reef.

Yes, making cement rock saves money but what it does not give you is instant gratification. Many people want to buy a tank on Saturday and have it fully stocked by Sunday. With a cement rock reef you are looking at about a year before it begins to start looking like natural live rock (although you can start stocking corals and fish before then).

For the full illustrated story of my tank visit: http://www.reefsuk.com/Marine%20Aquariu ... ticles.asp

Richard

 

[Anonymous]

Peat moss makes a nice addition and adds a lot of porosity to the rock.

For curing- I would just find a nice freshwater creek somewhere and dump it in. Go back a few months later and it should be fine- thats what I have done.

 

[Mouse]

Peat moss, what sort of ratio's you talkin here Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid I don't measure- I just do it by feel. Sometimes it comes out too soft. Here are a bunch of recipes:]
http://www.flash.net/~blhill/pages.aux/ ... tml#peter1

 

[K77]

Jamesw said; 'But why would you want to use concrete with zero life on it when you can get beautiful, biodiverse, natural liverock instead?'

LiquidShaneo said:'you get no beneficial life on your rock like worms, snails, coralline algae, hitchkiking critters, and you have to let the biological component of the rock build up.'

The above is only true if you don't put any 'seed live rock' into your tank. However, if you do, you can expect anything that would survive in live rock in a reef tank to collonise your cement rock.

at about a year before it begins to start looking like natural live rock (although you can start stocking corals and fish before then).

For the full illustrated story of my tank visit: http://www.reefsuk.com/Marine%20Aquariu ... ticles.asp

Richard

I was building an SPS reef and used about 100 lbs cement vs. 150lbs live rock (so far, still adding little by little). Its only been a few months, but the corals are happy and growing incredibly fast. The cement rock that I used for base rock under my live rock has not really grown very much stuff. I've been happier with the rock that I used to build arches and caves. The MHs have made the coralline really take off. After about three months its hard to tell the difference in the rock. I would highly reccomend a mix of cement rock in with your live rock just due to coral growth.

2 More benefits:

Keeps the PH in the tank up.
Keeps the calc and alk in the tank up.

 

[Mouse]

Thanks for the Link Dan, i think i might give the pete moss a go. Im thinking of some crazy shapes for this tank.

 

[MandarinFish]

I'm very interested in making my own aragrocrete too.

Just curious about materials that help keep it porous....

Has anyone tried:

* large chunks of ice, cube sized? (not shredded)

* sections of pvc?

* eggcrate?

All of these could help keep the rock from being really compact.

Also, what does peat moss do to Ph?

Any thoughts?