Are my bulbs too old?

[Dewman]

It has now been over 7 months since I bought new VHO bulbs for my tank.
I have three 24" bulbs (sun, actinic, 50/50) and only the 50/50 is 4 months old.
I have noticed all my corals starting to draw up and my star polyps have not extended themselves all the way out in more than two months. My xenia has shriveled and one piece has separated its self from the rock. I don't understand it.
All of my test parameters are flawless. There is no ammonia, or no2, or no3, my PH is 8ish, temp is 86*, kalk is ok, alk is ok, iodine ok. Salinity is good.
The only thing I could think of, is that maybe my bulbs were getting too old and not nourishing my corals enough.

Anyone have any comments?

 

[Dewman]

By the way, I forgot to mention, the tank is a 29 gallon. And the bulbs are being drivern by a n Icecap 430.

 

[Tremelle]

I have read that it is recommended that you change out your bulbs every 6 months. The light spectrum can change and your livestock will notice, but your eye will not.

 

[NaH2Ofreak]

uh......your temp is at 86 degrees?

 

[Dewman]

I have kept the temp at 86 during the day and 80 at night. I was told this was acceptable and my tank is now 9 months old. Temp has never proved to be a problem, but I am always open to new suggestions.
During an Arkansas summer, my tank temp will stay above 75* all the time without any help. So I have taken the heaters out of the tanks. The 75 gallon still has a heater in the skimmer box, because the tank takes a while to warm up and it is right next to an AC outlet and tends to cool off more than the 29 (which will fluctuate with room temperature).

What do you think?

 

[SPC]

Dewman, I presume you are running URI bulbs, if so IMO they don't need to be changed but once/year. I run only VHO over my 180 reef and this is the schedule I adhere to, in fact Ice Cap says 18 months. I think your problems with your corals lie elsewhere, any problem with snails or shrimp? Is there a chance you may have introduced copper to your system? Do you use RO/DI water? What is your salinity? How do you know your Iodine is ok? How old are your test kits? What are your readings for alk, calc? How much swing in PH do you have/day?
Steve

 

[NaH2Ofreak]

Wow! Im surprised that this "constant" 86 degree temp isnt sending up any red flags for people!! Maybe Im off here but I thought a max temp should be like 81 or 82. The 6 degree temp. swing between night and day dosent really concern me as much as the constant 86 degree high.

Maybe Im way off here but I would drop that temp...QUITE A BIT! Say max of 81 degrees during the day and 77-78 at night. Max of 80 degrees constant would probably be best. I keep my tank at 78-79 pretty constant. But hey.....what works for one might not for another!

Dennis

 

[SteveP]

NaH2Ofreak, 84 degrees is the average temp of the actual reefs that most of the corals we keep come from so 86 is well within the safe range. A lot of people would say your temp of 77-78 is way too low! I keep my tank at 82 with a 2 degree increase during the day from my two 400 watt MH's.

dewman, a 6 degree temp swing during the day does seem a little much, but it would probably affect your fish more than anything else. Aside from the questions SPC asked, what about feeding? What do you feed your corals, and how often? Is light their only source of nutrient?

Steve
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[Anemone]

As you've already seen, appropriate temp is a matter of much debate. that being said, IMO, 86 is a little on the high side. Hitting 86 occasionally shouldn't be a problem, but I'd try to have 84 be the max the tank reaches.

As others have noted, your water parameters are a little vague - what you believe is "okay" may be something I see a problem with, so please post actual readings.

Personally, I'd like to change my URI bulbs (IceCap 660) every six months, but I'm lazy, so I usually manage every 10 months or so. I haven't seen any major differences from when I first started out and was more reliable about my 6 month bulb changes (ie, when I actually did change the bulbs every 6 months).....

Kevin

 

[Dewman]

Ok. I am at work right now so I don't have my actual log with me. ( I keep a log). But when i say ok, I mean, according to the test kits measurements, all the readings are right directly in the middle of the range that is stated. All of coure, except for ammonia, no2 and no3.
The salinity is slightly low, but I have kept it that way from the beginning.
1.025 ish.
I will post actual reading tonight.

My bulbs are all black atthe ends with black streaks starting to creep up the middle . I thought this may be a problem.
As for shrimp, crabs and other fauna ...
I have had 2 camel back shrimp that have been in the tank for several months (hitchhikers) and they have never eaten anything except what I put in there.
As for crabs, I did have a red and white spotted mithrax that has disappeared, I looked for him the past few days and I even broke into his old hiding spot to see if I could find him. He was nowhere.
So that's one mistery...
Anyhow, i will post more specifics tonight.

Thanks all...

 

[Anonymous]

As far as temps go - since 84 is the AVERAGE on the reefs, much higher relatively constant excursions are quite common. It's often told about 90+ degree water in certain parts like the Maldives.

That said - while 84-86 is certainly fine, the higher you go in water temps (you could easily maintain a reef in 86-88 degrees with no stress on the animals) the higher the chance of you suffering a crash. The danger is dissolved O2 levels and the potential loss of power.

Say your tank is taking a slight excursion up to 88 degrees one hot summer day. A thunderstorm swings through the area and knocks out power. Without the aeration from the water movement from your main pump and skimmer etc the DO levels will plummet and the animals in your tank will quickly asphyxiate and the whole tank will likely crash.

So running in the lower 80's (80-84) will give you some cushion without significantly stressing the animals like mid 75's can.

 

[SPC]

Posted by Dewman:
My bulbs are all black atthe ends with black streaks starting to creep up the middle . I thought this may be a problem.

-Now THIS could be a problem! I have never had this happen but I'll give it a bump so others can comment.
Steve

 

[Ike]

If the bulbs are black on the ends. They should replace ASAP. Their spectrum has changed.

 

[Dewman]

Sweet, I am actually going to consolidate my 29 into my 75. Right now the 75 only has 4 no LIGHTS OVER IT (SHOPLIGHTS). I have a Condy anemone and some mushrooms in it. There is a Clarkii Clown who uses my cindy as host. I have not had the need for more light until now. I think I will reconfigure the 430 VHO's with 2, 110W actinics and then buy a 660 and run 2 daylights, and 2 50/50 s on it. That should be 8.8 watts /gal.
So I will just wait to replace the bulbs until I get this done. (hopefully by Thursday of next week).

So this leads to another question. Is 8.8 watts/gal going to be enough for SPS. If not, I need to find a new home for mine. I will not pay for a new MH setup. I can have some really nice softies and be equally as happy.

 

[MFisher]

My VHOs (on an Ice cap 660) are pushing three years old. The color ihas noticably shifted, but still looks ok and the corals still live. I've recently had some algae problems and I suspect its time to change them.

IMO the people that say you HAVE to replace your lights every X months are the same people selling bulbs. When your tank "feels" like it needs new bulbs is when you should replace 'em. Granted, my situation is a little extreme due to the poverty conditions of being a grad student, but the corals are still doing fine.

BTW, my Xenia species and star polyps look fine, I don't think the lights are your problem

 

[MFisher]

oh yeah, my URI bulbs started to turn black near the end somewhere around a year old. You couldn't tell any real color change (other than the initial, new-bulb, change) for close to two years.

 

[sally1]

Drewma: I can assure you this 86 degree temp is what is causing your problems. Xenia cannot take heat and will melt when the temp is too high and IMO 86 is too high. I have 4 tanks all with xenia. On my 72 I noticed just this week the xenia was starting to melt. I had a cover on this tank and the tank temp would get to 86. Non of my other tanks would get this high of temp. I immediately took off the cover and added a fan and the tank temp has maintained a temp of 81. The xenia has recovered and is now fine. Try lowering your tank temp by even adding one of those walmart clip on fans (that's what I used) and I will promise you your corals (especially xenia) will improve. Xenia cannot take temps of 86. BTW I only replace my URI bulbs once a year.

 

[slojmn1]

The temp debate is such a hot topic... no pun intended ...I keep 2 of my reef tanks between 79 and 84 regularly. When it creeps up to 86 I usually do something to get it back down around 84-85, but I have never had any problems with my corals at the higher temps, 'cept I lost a coupe sps frags last year in a temp spike up to 88 one day. I do try and avoid 5+ temp swings in a day but sometimes on a really hot day it is unavoidable. My xenia has done fine at higher temps and like anything we all have different experiences with the same type of livestock. I think something other than lights is a problem. I had a problem a number of years ago that I could not isolate...I believe a toxin of some sort was getting in the tank either from a nearby window or even on my hands. I did a series of water changes every three days for about three weeks, moved the tank away from the window, and became much more diligent in cleaning my hands before going into the tank. I also have had a huge decline in "mysterious problems" in all of my tanks since going to RO/DI water. Just some rambling thoughts. Good luck figuring this out.

 

[SPC]

Posted by MFisher:
My VHOs (on an Ice cap 660) are pushing three years old. The color ihas noticably shifted, but still looks ok and the corals still live. I've recently had some algae problems and I suspect its time to change them.

-What did you use to test this shift with? There is REAL data out there that specifies color shifts in these bulbs.

IMO the people that say you HAVE to replace your lights every X months are the same people selling bulbs.

-I'm not selling them but I do have a tendency to pay attention to what has scientific merit, and what you have posted has none.

When your tank "feels" like it needs new bulbs is when you should replace 'em.

-"Feels"? By the time one might get this "feeling" it may be to late. There is also the shock factor to the animals when you put new bulbs in after allowing the other ones to deteriorate too far.

Granted, my situation is a little extreme due to the poverty conditions of being a grad student, but the corals are still doing fine.

-What kind of corals? What does "doing fine mean"?
Steve

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[Dewman]

Hey guys, i appreciate all the help.

Mfisher- I appreciate your point of view and I thank you for your input,
but I think it's time for the bulbs to go.

I reduced the temp and everything has cleared up. I moved the xenia to my 75 gallon "critter" tank. I had to use a needle and thread to get it to re-anchor itself, but it looks like it is going to stay now.
I still plan to move everything over this week to the 75. I have been looking at different lighting options. I am looking at MH .
I didn't want to go this route, but it looks like for electricity's sake, I might have to do it.

In any case, thanks again everybody for the great response. I am glad we have this place, so the inexperienced can draw on others knowledge.

-Mountain Dewman