Dinoflagalates, how to get rid of them, PLEASE!

[Ben1]

I have had this infection of the dinoflagalates way too long and cant control them. I have done everything conventional to get rid of an algea problem but have had no success.

I have done large water changes, scrubbed all the dinos off the rocks and sand bed, cleaned the skimmer every couple of days, everything I could think of in the last couple of months but cant get rid of them.

I know that some people reccomend raising the PH to 8.4 for a few days but my Ph already rides high as all my top off is done through a nielson reactor.

I also read about leaving the lights off for a few days but this concerns me because this is a SPS/Clam tank and I dont want to cause any addtional stress to my corals or clams. I am very frustrated now and just hope some one has the answer.


TANK INFO:
75 gal AGA with 100lbs figi + 4" sand bed,30 gal sump, lifereef overflow
lighting: 2 x 400 watt 65k MH - 3 x 110 watt VHO actinics
Filtration: Euro-reef CS8-3 skimmer
I use a kent HI-S maxima with new membrane and all other filters for water change and all top off. I do a 25% water change bi weekly. The RO/DI unit keeps a bucket full and my liter meter dosing pump does all my top off through a my reef kalkreactor (nielson reactor).
I also dose 5 scoups of Tropic marins bio-calcium daily.
My bioload includes a CB butterfy, small clown, foxface and a female 3 stripe damsel. I also have 2 tigertail cukes. Tried poly filters once with no effect.

Some one PLEASE sovle my problem!!!

TIA

 

[liquid]

Check our library under the Subject index and do a text search for dinoflagellates. Todd Crail wrote a couple articles on how to get rid of them. Our library can be found here: http://www.reefs.org/library

hth

Shane

 

[ReefLion]

It sounds like you are talking about diatoms. Could you confirm what you are asking about? Just curious before suggesting anything. Thanks.

Tim

 

[Garry thomas]

Have you ever heard of potassium permanganate? they are purple crystals that oxidise diatoms algy and slime? but dont panic it comes in ready to use formIE: kent poly ox......fish and reef safe, but use as instructions say? as to much will raise the redox level through the roof, That will clear it up,+ do more water changes.

GT s wales

 

[liquid]

FWIW, I tried KMNO4 and it really pissed my corals off. They did not like it at all. Dinoflagellates look like long stringy "boogers/snot with bubbles." Is this what you're seeing?

Shane

 

[Adam1]

Hi all,

Just a cent and a half to throw in.....

KMNO3 or hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) can be used to raise redox. It seems to me that using a redox meter would be a wise precaution. The question is what is a safe redox level (or redox rise), and the answer is "who knows?".

There are studies in the food fish culture industry that found good results treating amyloodinium (a dinoflagellate) with H2O2 and the authors speculated that it was the rise in redox that was responsible.

In response to a minor velvet outbreak, I used H2O2 to raise redox in one of my reef tanks (without the precautionary redox meter). I used what I felt was a very conservative amount compared to the investigators of the above study. The velvet went away (coincidence?), but many corals and clams were pretty severly p*ssed, but all recovered.

In another unrelated story.....

After months of frustration with a dino bloom in another tank, I finally won. I run a calcium reactor, so I added the use of Kalk to maintain higher pH, alkalinity and calcium levels (my hunch is that if this works, it is because it shifts nutrient uptake to corals and clams). I also built a huge beckett skimmer and ran it on a 1500gph pump!

In addition to those measures, I re-thought my approach to detritus management. I cut back a little on feeding, but not much. I added a couple of cucumbers to control detritus on the sand bed (I believe moving a sandbed from another tank was a large contributor to my problem). I also added thick felt filter bags to my main tank drain and frequently blew detritus off of the rock work and frequently changed bags.

I gave up on large water changes early in the war since they did not seem to be at all effective. Early on, I did a 50% water change followed by two 25% water changes in two weeks with no effect on the dinos. Frequent siponing and scrubbing seemed to be equally ineffective.

Putting these two experiences together, I believe that increased redox could probably be a beneficial tool in controlling dinos and could be considered "reef safe", but it is probably wise to monitor redox, and move particularly sensitive animals (clams and LPS took the worst hits in my tank). Increased redox may have been a "side effect" of the increased skimming in the tank with the dinos, but I have to believe that controlling the nutrient source was more important in this particular case.

HTH.

Adam

 

[Ben1]

I have read all the articals by Todd in the library and it doesnt seem to be any new ideas there.

I believe my nutrient controll in my tank is good. I do not allow detritus build up in the sump, have a large skimmer for the system, use Kalk for all top off, and do plenty of water changes all with RO/DI water tested by a TDS meter.

From the suggestions I have read the best solutions are NO addtional water changes or trace element addtions. Cutting off lighting for 5 days then slowly re aclimating the corals to the regular light cycle. Is that all I can do am I missing something?

Ill post a picture you tell me what my problem is, TIA

 

[dzhuo]

have you try increase your water circulation such as directing a couple power head to them?

david

 

[Anonymous]

That first pic looks like the dinoflagellate problem I had. I battled it for over nine months.

Here's what I had to do. Get rid of detritus build up. I used a turkey baster to squirt water into pockets of the LR. To get rid of the crap that was kicked up, I put my HOT Magnum on the tank, running just carbon. Then I used the turkey baster every day when I saw the dreaded bubble-snot form. Still ran the HOT.
I pushed my pH up to 8.4 - 8.6.
It was a huge PITA, but I eventually beat them.
Good luck.

 

[Ben1]

Thanks for the advice.

I have been cleaning the dinos up every day after work. I also have been blowing all the rocks out with a powerhead every few days. None of the corals or fish seem effected, its just not going away.

I have done everything I can think of short of no lights.

TIA for all suggestions

 

[Bobzarry]

a few months after I set up my current tank I experianced a big dino problem that would not go way using all the conventional methods.
I decided to put in a deep sand bed. I had used southdown and needless to say the fine particles realy clouded up the water. This in turn seemed to kill off the dino and it never returned. My maintenance remained the same, only differeance was the sand bed. its been about 3 years now no signs of dino. draw your own conclutions - hope this helps someone.



Bob

 

[liquid]

Kill the lights for 2 - 3 days and then slowly increase your photoperiod. During this time do 25% waterchanges every other day for the first week and then 2 times the following week. That's the only thing that kicked mine in the rear. Also drip kalkwasser.

Shane

 

[lawndoctor]

My dinos only went away after I stopped dosing iodine.

 

[Ben1]

Thanks for the advice. Sorry to make you spell it out for me, I just thought there may have been anouther way. All well!

Today was day one with no lights at all on. It was wierd getting home tonight and seeing my house all dark, like the tank was just gone.


One last question, what effect do you expect the 3 days with no lights on will have on my system. I am worried about my 3 clams and my corals, SPS expecaily. I really dont want to have any bleach. Right now they are all in great health. Whats gradually turning the lights back on VHO actinics on full time (14 hours) after the 3rd day. Then MH 2 hours the next then icrease to 5 the next then back to 12 as normal?

Does that sound OK?

Again sorry to make you spell it out but I really would hate losing anything because of a algea bloom.

TIA

 

[liquid]

Ben,

2-3 days w/o lights will definitely lighten the coloration of your SPS, but they should weather thru OK. A fellow reefer that was primarily into SPS only kept his lights out for 2 day before he turned them back on so I'd recommend that you do likewise. In regards to the photoperiod: After 2 days of lights out and waterchanges, turn the halides on for 4 hrs and VHO for 6 hrs. After 3-4 days of this, gradually increase the photoperiod by 1 hour on each. Watch your corals very carefully during this time. If they're looking stressed due to lack of light you might have to make adjustments to the lighting schedule. Keep up the water changes.

Also, have you checked your phosphates? If they're elevated you may want to drip kalkwasser to help precipitate them out as this will also help crash your dinoflagellate bloom.

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

Keep us posted.

We are battling a different type of dino that is much soupier/thicker dark green snot with bubbles.

 

[Ben1]

OK, two days it is then. I actually run Ktop off through a nielson reactor so Kalk is dripped for all top off.
My PO2 test o but we all know that really doesnt mean much. I did also put a polyfilter in my overflow but that never changes black so I dont know.


Today is the second day with no lights and I think some of my sps may have lightened slightly in color but its hard to tell. Probably just mind games becuase Im so paranoid, the bad stuff always seems to happen to me.


Just as background do the dinos always exsist in our tanks or are they something that once dies out is gone for good. Why would they grow in an elevated high PO2 situation and not hair algea or cynobacteria for that matter. I did read in the Crail artical that when they teated the dinos they found some other algeas as well such as cyno so maybe this is a bad example. I guess what Im geeting at is did I have to intreduce this problem or was it always there?

Thanks again
Ben

 

[DKKA]

Just a thought:

It's been a few years since I tried Tropic-Marin's Bio Calcium, but from what I remember when it dissovles it leaves a fair bit of CO2 as well as the calcium. Maybe it's possible that is fueling your Dino's?

Just throwing that out there as a possibility. Although, I used Bio Calcium for a year without algae probs.

Dino's are wierd. Back in the Berlin days with very minimal feeding and heavy skimming I often had Dino probs. For me these could slowly be cured by KW dripping and changing DI filters, siphoning detritus (all the stuff you're already trying.)
Since I started playing around with plenums and DSB's and feeding more, and skimming and filtering less Dino probs have been nonexistent.

Good luck, Dino's suck!
Dan

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention...

My dinos came when I let my RO membrane go too long. So I changed it out (after 18 months) and did a bunch of water changes. Add that to my regime way up above.

 

[Ben1]

I wish I could post today to say all the problems are solved, I cant. I did the two days off with no lights by the third morning the dinos were extinct, or so I thought. I did the recommened water changes, and will do anouther tonight but they dont seem to be helping. I think the dinos can pull the nutrients from the water faster then the skimmer or bacteria even can. All my corals and clams are fine today but the brown frown is back in town.Ill post anoughter picture later.

I also thought maybe it was the membrane in my RO before so this was replaced and at that time I got a TDS meter to test the water.

I dont know what to do. I plan on putting additional fans on my sump to speed up evapartion and kick the nielson ractor up to a more frequent mix. Think this is a good idea?