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angel likes to rub himself!
- Thread starter reefNewbie
- Start date
If it has any twitching behavior or clamped fins then you can bet that it has something irritating it. Ich isn't always apparent until it's a problem. Keep a close eye on it, and try to fatten it up. I just got through a bout with ich and apart from treating the tank increasing feeding seemed to help allot. Good luck.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/choicef.html
then do a search for greenex. Is this for a FO or QT?
then do a search for greenex. Is this for a FO or QT?
this is for the tank that my current fish (false percula clown) and potters angel are in. They are in a 30 gallon tank that has 18lbs of LR. They are waiting for my 90 to completely cycle before being introduced. So i guess you could call this tank my QT tank because thats what it will be once i can move my LR and fish to the 90.
which should i get, if any, greenex or formalin? Im debating just waiting this out. I have been using garlic extreme in the water and on the food. I think, with time he might be able to fight it off if its just beginings of ich. if its gill flukes then i probably have to dip him in some medication, right?
I would dip it in a med bath of formalin. You can do a double dosage in a dip without hurting the fish. If you see any spots show up later on the fish you may want to treat the tank or do FW baths, although once a fish is covered a bath isn't very effective.
reefNewbie":258p9sht said:no, not like your thinking....He rubs against rocks like he has ich, but he doesnt have anything on him. Ive been watching him for the last few days and he shows no signs of ich. Yet here and there he rubs on the rocks.
Oodinium and ich often attach to the gill tissue first. The fish will "scratch" in response to this irritant. Having said that, if the fish eating well, I wouldn't do anything yet. Applying treatments prophylactically, especially when you don't know what you're treating, often does more harm than good.
Greg Schiemer
"Oodinium and ich often attach to the gill tissue first"
Correct Greg,
Problem is if the fish had oodinium it would be dead by now. Oodinium multiplies so rapidly that 24-72 hours after scratching, the fish is dead. Trust me, I have had an amyloodinium outbreak ( in my QT thank God!)
IME, cryptocaryon ( Ich ) shows outward spots at or before the time of gill distress to the fish.
It very well could be cryptocaryon, but if you look very closely at the fish ( watch the pectoral fins ) and see no spots and the fish is eating normally, cryptocaryon is not my first guess.
Gill flukes OTOH are impossible to see in most circumstances, are very common on newly imported fish, and multiply slowly ( relative to ich and oodinium )
Sometimes in a healthy reef tank flukes will simply die out on the fish and not reproduce in the tank ( lots of coral "mouths" to eat them )
OTOH, I hope this fish is not already in a reef tank. If it is reefnewbie, first thing you need to do is set up a QT and treat every single new fish in it for 3-4 weeks BEFORE adding any more disease into your display tank.
John
Correct Greg,
Problem is if the fish had oodinium it would be dead by now. Oodinium multiplies so rapidly that 24-72 hours after scratching, the fish is dead. Trust me, I have had an amyloodinium outbreak ( in my QT thank God!)
IME, cryptocaryon ( Ich ) shows outward spots at or before the time of gill distress to the fish.
It very well could be cryptocaryon, but if you look very closely at the fish ( watch the pectoral fins ) and see no spots and the fish is eating normally, cryptocaryon is not my first guess.
Gill flukes OTOH are impossible to see in most circumstances, are very common on newly imported fish, and multiply slowly ( relative to ich and oodinium )
Sometimes in a healthy reef tank flukes will simply die out on the fish and not reproduce in the tank ( lots of coral "mouths" to eat them )
OTOH, I hope this fish is not already in a reef tank. If it is reefnewbie, first thing you need to do is set up a QT and treat every single new fish in it for 3-4 weeks BEFORE adding any more disease into your display tank.
John
thanks...as i stated, this fish is in my 30 waiting for my 90 to cycle. He is in with a false percula clown as well and some LR. Is it safe to move the LR out of the QT or could it have some of the parascites on it? What should i treat with then, formalin or greenex?
OK,
Here is what I would do.........
Put the live rock in the 90 that is cycling, assuming you already have some rock in there.
Will you have enough bio- filtration in the 30 without it?
You should if you have some sand or crushed coral on the bottom already. If not, get a sponge filter and run for a few days in the 30 before doing the next steps.
Then, lower the specific gravity ( test using a glass hydrometer........not a swing arm type ) to 1.009 or a salinity of 14 ppt ( if you are using a refractometer )
When you do this salinity drop, you can do it over a few hours to a couple days. Just make sure and add some buffer to the water and check the pH often as it will drop quickly in low salinity.
Then maintain the low salinity for 3 weeks. You will need to check salinity ( or sg. ) twice a day for the first few days until you get a good feel for the stabilization point.
The low salinity will eliminate cryptocaryon from the fish completely. There is some evidence it can eliminate some types of gill flukes as well, but not always.
Then once you have the 30 tank stabilized for a couple weeks, start the treatment for flukes as follows:
Prepare a bucket with some of the water from the 30 gallon tank ( maybe 3 gallons ), add 0.5ml per gallon ( so 1.5ml for a 3 gallon bucket ) to the bucket and add an airstone for gas exchange while giving ALL of the fish the bath. The bath should last for about 45 minutes. Repeat the bath every 3 days for about 3 treatments.
By this time the fish will have been in this low salinity system for over 3 weeks.
You can then raise the salinity back to normal over the period of 4-5 days, and then they are ready to go into your newly cycled 90 gallon reef.
The fish will not have Ich, oodinium, or gill flukes, and you will be off to a great start.
Just make sure to monitor ammonia levels in the QT, as well as pH and salinity.
Nitrites in the QT are actually not very important ( believe it or not )
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but you will not have to tear down the tank or lose fish to ich either.
Then every new fish you get in should be QT'd in the same way ( except skip the formalin baths if the fish show no symptoms like scratching )
Any questions I will be glad to help..............I have been where you are ( and much worse )
John
Here is what I would do.........
Put the live rock in the 90 that is cycling, assuming you already have some rock in there.
Will you have enough bio- filtration in the 30 without it?
You should if you have some sand or crushed coral on the bottom already. If not, get a sponge filter and run for a few days in the 30 before doing the next steps.
Then, lower the specific gravity ( test using a glass hydrometer........not a swing arm type ) to 1.009 or a salinity of 14 ppt ( if you are using a refractometer )
When you do this salinity drop, you can do it over a few hours to a couple days. Just make sure and add some buffer to the water and check the pH often as it will drop quickly in low salinity.
Then maintain the low salinity for 3 weeks. You will need to check salinity ( or sg. ) twice a day for the first few days until you get a good feel for the stabilization point.
The low salinity will eliminate cryptocaryon from the fish completely. There is some evidence it can eliminate some types of gill flukes as well, but not always.
Then once you have the 30 tank stabilized for a couple weeks, start the treatment for flukes as follows:
Prepare a bucket with some of the water from the 30 gallon tank ( maybe 3 gallons ), add 0.5ml per gallon ( so 1.5ml for a 3 gallon bucket ) to the bucket and add an airstone for gas exchange while giving ALL of the fish the bath. The bath should last for about 45 minutes. Repeat the bath every 3 days for about 3 treatments.
By this time the fish will have been in this low salinity system for over 3 weeks.
You can then raise the salinity back to normal over the period of 4-5 days, and then they are ready to go into your newly cycled 90 gallon reef.
The fish will not have Ich, oodinium, or gill flukes, and you will be off to a great start.
Just make sure to monitor ammonia levels in the QT, as well as pH and salinity.
Nitrites in the QT are actually not very important ( believe it or not )
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but you will not have to tear down the tank or lose fish to ich either.
Then every new fish you get in should be QT'd in the same way ( except skip the formalin baths if the fish show no symptoms like scratching )
Any questions I will be glad to help..............I have been where you are ( and much worse )
John
or the simpler method....go get new fish!
:lol: just kidding. wow you wrote a lot. Thanks for all of the valuable information. I will do as you said. one question why use the glass hydrometer? I was told those are inaccurate unless the tank temperature is 75 degrees where ass the swing arm type adjust to your tanks temperature. thanks
:lol: just kidding. wow you wrote a lot. Thanks for all of the valuable information. I will do as you said. one question why use the glass hydrometer? I was told those are inaccurate unless the tank temperature is 75 degrees where ass the swing arm type adjust to your tanks temperature. thanks
Swing arm hydrometers are about the worst type you can use.
They are horribly inaccurate.
Here are a couple links:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... t+accurate
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... mistry.htm
John
They are horribly inaccurate.
Here are a couple links:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... t+accurate
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... mistry.htm
John
What medications?
You are only using the formalin in a bucket as a bath.
I would leave everything as is except for removing the LR.
The skimmer will stop working just because of the low salinity, but it will not hurt to leave it in.
Reefshark,
You just adjust for the temp difference based on a compensation chart.
John
You are only using the formalin in a bucket as a bath.
I would leave everything as is except for removing the LR.
The skimmer will stop working just because of the low salinity, but it will not hurt to leave it in.
Reefshark,
You just adjust for the temp difference based on a compensation chart.
John
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