Question about live rock in a new tank....

[Warlock]

I am going to be setting up my tank here in the next month, and I have a question about live rock.

Would you buy cured live rock, or would you get it uncured and keep it in the tank and sump by itself for a couple months? Would I keep more stuff alive on the rock this way as opposed to buying completly cured?

I have read alot about people curing their own in trash cans, and I have heard a little of people just keeping that in their tanks for awhile....

I know which one is cheaper, but which one in your opinion is better....

 

[oimate84]

If you are just setting up a new aquarium and dont have any inhabitants in it, then it wouldnt hurt to save some $$ and buy the uncured rock, just provide the rock good circulation and good protein skimming and your rock will cure in the tank, youll know when your tank water isnt smelling fishy anymore...

 

[wombat1]

A lot of stuff will die off unless you have a huge system. www.harboraquatics.com has good cured live rock, if you can afford it.

 

[Dewman]

Cure it yourself if you have no inhabitanats yet.
My Marshall Island Rock had TONS of critters on it, including some anemones, encrusting coral, and button polyps that survived. Plus, sometimes you will get a shrimp, or cuke along with the shipment that actually survives.
Pretty cool to watch the rock cure and change day by day, (if youve never done it before).

Save some cash, buy uncured if you can.

 

[Warlock]

Will it smell really bad?

Don't know if my wife would be real happy about that.....

Do you feed anything, or just sit back and wait?

Sorry for the dumb questions....

 

[Dewman]

Hey dude, that's the beauty of it.
Besides a few water changes, you do nothing. Just empty your skimmer cup regularly.
Seriously, how bad it smells, is directly proportional to how much die-off you have.
If the rock you get has TONS of sponges and stuff on it, chances are, it will stink. If you can pull off the majoruity of the sponges and whatever else may be fleshy and hanging loose, chances are, it won't drive your wife out of the house.
You don't necessarily need to keep light on it while it's curing, but it may help eliminate some of the ammonia if your rock has algae on it.

Do you have a book yet? You need a book.
There are many to choose from, my favorite starter guide, and the one I used was "The New Marine Aquarium" by Michael Paletta (about $15). I then purchased "Natural Reef Aquariums" by John Tullock (about $29).
The book by Tullock is more comprehensive and more pics of what you will be looking for. But Paletta is just fine if you don't plan on stocking the tank for a while and you just need a setup guide.

No feeding is required by the way...

Trust me about the book thing... it will be your BEST first investment.

 

[Warlock]

Well, I have been reading books......

I got a couple that are a little further down the road.

"Corals - A qiuck Reference Guide" , J. Sprung
"Book Of Coral Propogation", A. Calfo
"The Reef Aquarium V II" J. Sprung & C. Deelback

The "Starter" Books that I have are

"Your First Marine Aquarium" Tullok
Doesn't have anything about curing your own.....

I got "Natural Reef Aquariums" For my birthday, and I am learning alot from it....

I just figured if I could get started with the live rock, it might help me out a bit..... I am getting a little anxious.....

Thanks for the help

 

[Dewman]

I just got the one by Sprung and Dilbeek fr Christmas... good book.
Well, perfect. Read a little on page 86 and 87 in Natural Reef Aquariums...
Hell, read the whole chapter.

Anyhow, all I can say is read as much about setup as you can. Doing the right thing now, in the proper sequence, may save you boucoup dollars later!! Trust me.

Basically, the first step is to lay down your live rock and DSB. You will have a while before the it's time for the next step. I don't see why you couldn't use the time in between to read the rest of what you need to know.
I don't profess to know anything, but I have made as many mistakes as anyone here, so I have all that to work from.

If you absolutely can't wait (and I don't blame you), I don't see any harm in at least setting up you LR and DSB. make sure you put your LR in first so the pieces dont tip and topple. Pour your sand around it. But before you do this, read about it a few times...

There is a lot more information in the Archives of this site, than you can find in any book... make sure you use it too

Oh yeah... have I said to read too? :wink:

 

[Warlock]

That is what I was thinking....

That way I would get to see a little bit happining, and my wife would see some progress too... She is really excited, that is a big plus! :wink:

I have been trying to get as much from the posts here also. I have a filled 2 1/2" 3 ring binder of stuff that I have printed off to keep just from this board.....

I don't want to kill anything, I am just wanting to get the live rock started. I am planning on running just that for 2 months or so..... I know that slowly is the best....

One more dumb question...

DSB?

Something with Substrate? Sand Bed?

 

[Dewman]

Deep Sand Bed...

The only socially acceptable substrate on this board :wink:

Just kidding... Actually, it is really the way to go.

DSB usually consists of 3 to 4 inches of very fine aragonite (calcium based) sand. This is placed around the Live rock which is sitting on the bare bottom of your tank. This allows the for a more stable platform from which you will build your reef. This way sand burrowing creatures cannot burrow below the structure, compromising its foundation.
If you have heard of Southdown sand, it is supposed to be the real deal. It is cheap and can be bought at Home Depot in some parts of the country. I live in Arkansas, and HD doesn't believe they need to carry it in my part of the world, so I buy the pricey stuff. You probably will not need to buy any live sand if you go this route, since the uncured live rock will have plenty of bacteria to go around. Some people do it anyway.

The purpose of a DSB is biological filtration, and sand critters. Your DSB will be as much of a filter as your live rock will be by providing an anaerobic area in your tank which will harbor nitrate-eating bacteria...
Also, this will provide a living working substrate full of spaghetti worms(detrivores) and bristle worms and all kinds of great fauna.

I believe the going depth right now is 3-4 inches... someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Warlock]

I have seen Southdown sand come up on here also. I am from Ohio, and I started checking the HD around here also. No longer carried. Damnit..... :evil: I guess they are supposed to be getting some other co. that will supply their sand. They were not sure about what it was, but it was to be a white sand for the concrete and grout. The guy I talked to didn't sound real sure what he was talking about.... I guess I will probably have to do the expensive route also....

 

[Dewman]

Not sure what part of Ohio you are in, but I have a friend who lives North of Columbus in Bucyrus. He said he found Southdown in a store around there. Not sure if it was Home depot or not. But it was the same sand.

I will find out and let you know tomorrow.

 

[Warlock]

Woo Hoo!!!!!!!

Thanks man!!!!!!

 

[Xx_de_xX]

My suggestions:


Have a DSB- As previously stated, you need the critters. The critters that live in the sand will do alot of the work for you. Not to mention, they'll help feed your tank. (Yea, DewMan- 3-4 inches is absolutely acceptable.) Read this for more information on DSB's: http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

Buy uncured liverock and keep the lights on- If you mail order liverock, no matter what you should consider it "uncured." Even if they say it's cured, there's no way for them to prevent dieoff when they ship it from their holding tanks, to you. Maybe the dieoff won't be as bad as when you buy uncured live rock, but you're going to have to cycle your tank anyways. I do also suggest turning the lights on in your tank with liverock in there. There's always the possibility of corals (no matter how small) living through the shipment. You never know- by not keeping the lights on, you might kill a really rare coral!

Buy also a clean up crew- Granted, the liverock will provide alot of critters for your DSB, the more the better! It's even better if you get "critters" from two seperate sources.. more diversity is the key to a healthy sand bed!

Stay away from Crabs, Shrimp, all that stuff- Yea, they eat algae, yea, they look cool. But when you've got no algae to eat (which there will come a time for you hopefully) they will gladly devour all your critters in the sand! I look at them as pests, and get rid of them as soon as I see them. You're better off starting right from the get go. Stay away from Sand sifting predators like sand sifting goby's too. They might look cool, but they will eventually "clean" your tank of all the critters you need.

Visit Reefcentral.com if you haven't already- I know this is reefs.org and it's bad to try and divert attention from here, but come on- there's alot to know about reef systems, and the more information, the merrier.

How did I do on my very first post on reefs.org?

I'm sorry if any of you out there disagree with me about anything I've suggested. Some of it makes since, and some of it doesn't, I know. Please don't flame me because of what I suggest. I'm not trying to say that any of you guys out there are wrong with doing some of the things that I don't suggest. These are just in my opinion.

 

[dale nilson]

Xx - good post. The only thing I would add is...Be prepared for latge water changes in case of a severe ammonia spike.

Dale

 

[Dewman]

I agree with the water change idea, but not becasue of the ammonia spike. You need ammonia to feed the bacteria on the surfaceof thelive rock. If they can't get established and have plenty to eat, then there is really no reason to have the LR in the first place.

In the beginning... ammonia -good
At the end... ammonia - bad

If you give your tank timetcycle, until there is no detectable ammonia, there shouldn'tbe any problems.
My reasonfo doingthe water change, was to keep me from vomiting every time I opened the hood to do something. :wink:

 

[Russ1]

I might add that it is good to go ahead and turn the lights for the full cycle. You will definitely get a huge algae bloom but be patient, it will die off. Some might disagree with me on the initial light but I just cycled a 750 gal that way with uncured live rock. It was a wee-bit smelly though!

 

[dale nilson]

Dewman - I agree you need ammonia for the bacteria. I only referred to excessive ammonia, an amount so high it would be detrimental for inverts such as the hitch-hiker corals we would all love to preserve. This is only likely to be a problem with uncured live rock with a massive amount of die-off from sponges, etc. exposed to air for too long. With a smaller level of ammonia, the cycle might take a little longer, but should give better survival of desired inverts. As in nearly all things reefing, patience is a virtue.

 

[Dewman]

Oh yeah Dale. I totally agree with you.. I just never thought of that.
Thanks

Warlock, make sure and pull the majority of large sponges off the rock.
Most big ones will not survive.
Most of my smaller ones did though....

 

[Xx_de_xX]

I guess I'm going to be doing something kinda different in my tank. I just set my tank up 2 weeks ago, but I've been studying this subject for almost a year. My thoughts are, I'm not going to do any water changes if I don't have to. When my tank cycles, and my nitrate is up, and won't go down, I might change some of the water- but unless there's a problem, I'm not doing anything to upset the chemistry and balance of the tank. I know it might seem extreme, but more and more I read of people doing absolutely nothing to their tanks, except what should be done. I realize you add alot to your tank when you use topoff water, but nothing other than that. Hell, I've got half the nerve to modify my protein skimmer to become a refugium, and run (techno) filterless!