I have had their Surgarium II algae scrubber system for about 9 months (300g salt reef), and have had some major problems with it and getting in touch with anyone at the company (their # is now disconnected-DOH!). The scrubbers seem to do what they're supposed to, but the lighting system was both completely inadequate and had to be returned TWICE because it didn't work and kept eating the MH bulbs (6 out of 8 total bulbs in 3 months). Never got any sort of refund on return shipping or bulbs eventhough it was promised about 10 times (return shipping was about $300/time). Now other parts are starting to break. If there is anyone out there who has one of these systems, or has purchased anything from them, can you tell me about it? On the other hand, if you're thinking about getting one (assuming they're still in business), please contact me and I'll tell you all the pros and cons before you drop $20g's on your hobby.
Has anyone out there ever purchased anything from MMFI?
- Thread starter sdt5150
- Start date
just checked out their site-don't think you were kidding about the 20k!
sorry you got taken! even the sites design is a scam seller! full of bogus statements and claims!-and a pyramid selling scheme added, to boot!
my sympathies-
fwiw-(and i know this may not be great consolation)-a refugium sump with a dsb and macros will give you exactly what these clowns claim you won't get, and waaay cheaper, too.
they should be taken to court just by virtue of the statements (lies)on their site! to say nothing of their prices!why isn't there some type of advocacy group out there for hobbyists who get hornswoggled like this?
sorry you got taken! even the sites design is a scam seller! full of bogus statements and claims!-and a pyramid selling scheme added, to boot!
my sympathies-
fwiw-(and i know this may not be great consolation)-a refugium sump with a dsb and macros will give you exactly what these clowns claim you won't get, and waaay cheaper, too.
they should be taken to court just by virtue of the statements (lies)on their site! to say nothing of their prices!why isn't there some type of advocacy group out there for hobbyists who get hornswoggled like this?
a lesson for all newbie reef internet purchasers:
the more hype you see, the less there is to the item sold...
reefland-
ditto!-i think their reasoning is that anyone who would stay 'till the end will be a shoe in sale!
sdt5150-no offense intended!-btw-this is a classic illustration as to the value(one of the..)of bb's like this-if more people would ask around first, less would be taken for a ride(don't mean to be 'hindsight is 20/20').
hopefully, others will get the message-ticks me off, though, that (you) someone usually gets hit, first.
so help me, there oughtta be a law.... :evil: :evil: :evil:
the more hype you see, the less there is to the item sold...
reefland-
ditto!-i think their reasoning is that anyone who would stay 'till the end will be a shoe in sale!
sdt5150-no offense intended!-btw-this is a classic illustration as to the value(one of the..)of bb's like this-if more people would ask around first, less would be taken for a ride(don't mean to be 'hindsight is 20/20').
hopefully, others will get the message-ticks me off, though, that (you) someone usually gets hit, first.
so help me, there oughtta be a law.... :evil: :evil: :evil:
and you guys thought i was kidding about the price tag didn't you! 8O
actually, i researched the you know what out of this thing for more than a year before i purchased it. i've tried several other set-ups in the past 10+ years on different reef tanks, and had just found out about the whole algae scrubber technology stuff. i had talked to several people at Inland Aquatics, who were selling a complete system (they use them in just about all their reefs), and heard nothing but praise from them about it. however, they ended up getting sued by (what later turned out to be) MMFI for patent violations and were no longer allowed to sell the systems. they still told me to buy a scrubber system even if it wasn't going to be from them. Adey's Dynamic Aquaria also was pro-scrubber. in fact, the technology really works...all my readings for the nasty stuff are at zero, i have shrimp, nudibranchs, bizarre critters thriving like crazy in my scrubbers (i have 4 of them) and maintaining them is a breeze. as much as i'd like to bash MMFI for the hassles i've been through, i have to admit that many of their claims are legit. unfortunately, their execution and choice of materials (i.e. lights etc) for something with this price tag really lacks. when all of the lights were on, the built-in fans were so loud that they could be heard in the garage! it was like running a vaccuum cleaner for 12hrs a day. plus the attitude of the owner (Mark) when questioned about any of this really stinks too. takes it way too personally when challenged. to top it all off, i had to wait 10 (yes, 10) months for my system to be delivered.
one other thing...the substrate that comes with the system is called OceanPro ABS. they claim that it's some sort of aragonite mix that provides all the trace elements (you know the drill) so that suppliments aren't needed. 1/4 of it needs to be replaced every 6 months. there's a thread going around about Miracle Mud that made me wonder if this is just another way of continually generating money (the 'mud' apparently needs to be replaced every 2 years or so). i can't find any research on this (the ABS), and i was under the assumption that it's made by another vendor, but i'm now guessing that MMFI makes it (there's no additional info on the bucket it comes in). is anyone out there using this stuff, heard of it, or know of it's properties? my trace element levels are solid since i dose with combisan, but i'd really like an unbiased scientific opinion about it.
i'll be putting up a site to show everything pretty soon (damnhippo, i've become a master of the jury rig..just wait and see), so stayed tuned. oh, and FYI, the owner is an attorney, so you can guess where the content from the web site originated. anyone getting to the end of it should get a medal.
actually, i researched the you know what out of this thing for more than a year before i purchased it. i've tried several other set-ups in the past 10+ years on different reef tanks, and had just found out about the whole algae scrubber technology stuff. i had talked to several people at Inland Aquatics, who were selling a complete system (they use them in just about all their reefs), and heard nothing but praise from them about it. however, they ended up getting sued by (what later turned out to be) MMFI for patent violations and were no longer allowed to sell the systems. they still told me to buy a scrubber system even if it wasn't going to be from them. Adey's Dynamic Aquaria also was pro-scrubber. in fact, the technology really works...all my readings for the nasty stuff are at zero, i have shrimp, nudibranchs, bizarre critters thriving like crazy in my scrubbers (i have 4 of them) and maintaining them is a breeze. as much as i'd like to bash MMFI for the hassles i've been through, i have to admit that many of their claims are legit. unfortunately, their execution and choice of materials (i.e. lights etc) for something with this price tag really lacks. when all of the lights were on, the built-in fans were so loud that they could be heard in the garage! it was like running a vaccuum cleaner for 12hrs a day. plus the attitude of the owner (Mark) when questioned about any of this really stinks too. takes it way too personally when challenged. to top it all off, i had to wait 10 (yes, 10) months for my system to be delivered.
one other thing...the substrate that comes with the system is called OceanPro ABS. they claim that it's some sort of aragonite mix that provides all the trace elements (you know the drill) so that suppliments aren't needed. 1/4 of it needs to be replaced every 6 months. there's a thread going around about Miracle Mud that made me wonder if this is just another way of continually generating money (the 'mud' apparently needs to be replaced every 2 years or so). i can't find any research on this (the ABS), and i was under the assumption that it's made by another vendor, but i'm now guessing that MMFI makes it (there's no additional info on the bucket it comes in). is anyone out there using this stuff, heard of it, or know of it's properties? my trace element levels are solid since i dose with combisan, but i'd really like an unbiased scientific opinion about it.
i'll be putting up a site to show everything pretty soon (damnhippo, i've become a master of the jury rig..just wait and see), so stayed tuned. oh, and FYI, the owner is an attorney, so you can guess where the content from the web site originated. anyone getting to the end of it should get a medal.
I have a small scrubber unit from MMFI. I decided against buying their lighting system as I had an Icecap 430 lying around unused. I bought the scrubber during a 1/2 off sale. I don't plan on testing their claim that this is the only filter to use, but I do like the use of an algae filter with a DSB and heavily backing off of skimming after the tank is established. Delivery took forever, and since the founders are lawyers, there is a pretty amazing amount of legalese in all of the sales info. There really isn't a tremendous amount that's unusual about their designs. The thing that I like about it is that in the algae growth tray they use some interesting plexi sheeting inserts to create turbulent flow across the growth trays. You can also adjust the layout of these sheets to account for varying flows. I use a LOT of flow across mine, as these seem to bring the best results and keep a nice water depth through the scrubber.
At half off I think I paid around $150 for an algae scrubber sized for a 75-125 gallon tank. I have it on a 55 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump with a 6 inch DSB refugium taking up half of the sump, and the other half occupied by an old Berlin skimmer and it's pump. The plan for this tank after it matures is to remove the skimmer. Before a major temperature spike 3 months ago that killed off most everythin on the live rock, the tank was run skimmerless. The tank seemed to be recovering even without the skimmer, but I added it in about a week ago and it's speeding up the recovery even more.
So, in conclusion, I'd say that the hype and all the threats of lawsuits if you use the filters in commercial enterprises or share the designs with anyone really gave me pause. Especially since any really basic DIY'er could build a pretty serviceable version of these filters in no time. It wouldn't be as slick, but it would be a lot cheaper and easier to fit into specific spaces. It seems like bad business to threaten all you customers with lawsuits on every page of the website. I do, however, like their algae filter based on how it performs in my system. I can't complain too much about spending $150 on it either. FYI, adding ICECAP lights and the basic plumbing and a good pump to drive it would add another couple of hundred dollars. However, if there is one thing I've learned in this hobby is that good reliable pumps and lights are invaluable and I like doing my own plumbing to fit into odd sump configurations. So, if you choose to use their set-up, you'll pay a hefty price for the lighting and plumbing set-ups, but taking the basic set-up and adding judiciously to it gives a first-rate algae filter that will last a long time.
Josh
At half off I think I paid around $150 for an algae scrubber sized for a 75-125 gallon tank. I have it on a 55 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump with a 6 inch DSB refugium taking up half of the sump, and the other half occupied by an old Berlin skimmer and it's pump. The plan for this tank after it matures is to remove the skimmer. Before a major temperature spike 3 months ago that killed off most everythin on the live rock, the tank was run skimmerless. The tank seemed to be recovering even without the skimmer, but I added it in about a week ago and it's speeding up the recovery even more.
So, in conclusion, I'd say that the hype and all the threats of lawsuits if you use the filters in commercial enterprises or share the designs with anyone really gave me pause. Especially since any really basic DIY'er could build a pretty serviceable version of these filters in no time. It wouldn't be as slick, but it would be a lot cheaper and easier to fit into specific spaces. It seems like bad business to threaten all you customers with lawsuits on every page of the website. I do, however, like their algae filter based on how it performs in my system. I can't complain too much about spending $150 on it either. FYI, adding ICECAP lights and the basic plumbing and a good pump to drive it would add another couple of hundred dollars. However, if there is one thing I've learned in this hobby is that good reliable pumps and lights are invaluable and I like doing my own plumbing to fit into odd sump configurations. So, if you choose to use their set-up, you'll pay a hefty price for the lighting and plumbing set-ups, but taking the basic set-up and adding judiciously to it gives a first-rate algae filter that will last a long time.
Josh
sdt5150
You're one of the few people I have ever heard of that bought something from them.
About ten years back, when I would occasionally buy an issue of FAMA to read on my commute (which was years before I ever bought a bag of salt) I use to to see their wordy repetitive advertisements. I gave them a call, and they sent me a free catalog. Some years later (after I had set up my first reef) I noticed an ad from them for a hang on surge unit. I called them up about it, they asked for my name, and sure enough, they actually had me on their records, and told me they had 'given' me a lot of 'valuable' information already for 'free'. They also told me that the surge unit (not too expensive actually) could not be ready for several weeks or months after I ordered it. I lost interest quickly.
The owner of another reef equipment company (one with a very good reputation) told me that the owners of aquaricare are lawyers, and are quick to threaten lawsuit - it could well be that aquaricare's main income comes from catalogs and lawsuits - the few people that I have heard bought something from aquaricare had nothing good to say about build quality of their units.
You're one of the few people I have ever heard of that bought something from them.
About ten years back, when I would occasionally buy an issue of FAMA to read on my commute (which was years before I ever bought a bag of salt) I use to to see their wordy repetitive advertisements. I gave them a call, and they sent me a free catalog. Some years later (after I had set up my first reef) I noticed an ad from them for a hang on surge unit. I called them up about it, they asked for my name, and sure enough, they actually had me on their records, and told me they had 'given' me a lot of 'valuable' information already for 'free'. They also told me that the surge unit (not too expensive actually) could not be ready for several weeks or months after I ordered it. I lost interest quickly.
The owner of another reef equipment company (one with a very good reputation) told me that the owners of aquaricare are lawyers, and are quick to threaten lawsuit - it could well be that aquaricare's main income comes from catalogs and lawsuits - the few people that I have heard bought something from aquaricare had nothing good to say about build quality of their units.
Cugel...
would you believe i STILL can't get ahold of these guys! i've made close to 100 calls....only get the same lame answering machine everytime. i've contacted the BBB and lodged a complaint. i'm guessing that i'm the only moron who purchased a system from them. maybe if i post instructions and pictures, they'll call me and threated to sue. i'm guessing that's the only way of talking to them. after 10 months of working with their stuff, i still think that the product is quite good (obviously not the lights tho) but price-wise it's a huge rip-off. i would never buy another thing from them and i would encourage others to do the same. plus their customer service is a total embarrassment and disgrace.
would you believe i STILL can't get ahold of these guys! i've made close to 100 calls....only get the same lame answering machine everytime. i've contacted the BBB and lodged a complaint. i'm guessing that i'm the only moron who purchased a system from them. maybe if i post instructions and pictures, they'll call me and threated to sue. i'm guessing that's the only way of talking to them. after 10 months of working with their stuff, i still think that the product is quite good (obviously not the lights tho) but price-wise it's a huge rip-off. i would never buy another thing from them and i would encourage others to do the same. plus their customer service is a total embarrassment and disgrace.
From the website:
Wow, I guess I'll have to throw away the dozens of textbooks from PhDs that say the opposite of this!! Did you guys ever know that there's no bacteria in the ocean??? Their website reads like a pay for porn site that tells you how great everything will be once you buy it, but they never really explain anything. I'd like to keep this thread going so everyone can see what a scam it is.
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