Ive been running my 55 gal. reef tank for over a year now with a TidePool biowheel wet/dry filter and a sealife systems protein skimmer. I have about 55 pnds Live Rock in the tank. Its been running decent but I would like the presence of nitrates to go down more. Would just taking out the big biowheel all of a sudden cause a big stress on my corals and fish? and do I have adequate rock and skimming to support this Berlin Method? Definately an ETS sounds nice but would definately put a hole in my pocket. Thanks for helping me out! 8)
The Berlin Method
- Thread starter oimate84
- Start date
Hello oimate84 Do a search here in reefs .org on filtration, the berlin method, mechanical methods, bio-methods etc. you will like the reading
the berlin method is complicated but understandable once you start reading. But for now the berlin system does not use any devices a protein skimmer is often used but very sparingly at best ( perhaps once or twice a month)( but has variables) My recommendation is for you to gradually
take your tidepool off line. If you can bypass it for 12hrs/day for 1 week
then 16hrs/day for 2nd week then 20hrs/day for 3rd week then off alltogether test your water two times per week for ammonia,nitrite and nitrate. keep your skimmer running well during the change over we can talk about it at a later date. perhaps in the future you could about another 50 lbs of good live rock this can be done slowly as your finances allow. Important to know how deep is your sand bed, is it live? and what type as aragonite reduces nitrate also. Look for replies from others and
keep coming back
the berlin method is complicated but understandable once you start reading. But for now the berlin system does not use any devices a protein skimmer is often used but very sparingly at best ( perhaps once or twice a month)( but has variables) My recommendation is for you to gradually
take your tidepool off line. If you can bypass it for 12hrs/day for 1 week
then 16hrs/day for 2nd week then 20hrs/day for 3rd week then off alltogether test your water two times per week for ammonia,nitrite and nitrate. keep your skimmer running well during the change over we can talk about it at a later date. perhaps in the future you could about another 50 lbs of good live rock this can be done slowly as your finances allow. Important to know how deep is your sand bed, is it live? and what type as aragonite reduces nitrate also. Look for replies from others and
keep coming backYou can probably just yank the biowheel all at once. Many people have done it with no problems. Having it dry for 20 hrs?? You're just going to get a lot of die off which will contribute to waste in the tank. There is a lot more bacteria on all your rock and sand than on that piddly little biowheel. The primary components of the Berlin method are abundant live rock, good protein skimming, and an effort to minimalize nutrients added to the water. A deep sand bed composed of fine grained particles as well as a refugium with large growths of macroalgae or harvestable corals like Xenia and Anthelia will also help to reduce nitrates along with the live rock.
It's true that the depth and health of the sand bed are important factors in helping to reduce nitrates. However, a DSB can be composed of any material as long as the grains of sediment are the proper size. Check out the link on this site about deep sand beds. http://rshimek.com
The Berlin Method of filtration was basically just a lot of quality live rock and heavy protein skimming with the bottom of the tank being kept bare. It has been hybridized since, to have refugiums, or DSBs or mechanical filters added in different combinations. Personally, I still use and prefer the basic bare bottom Berlin.
For a true Berlin, you will need approximately 85 to 100 lbs of quality live rock, (porous, not dense rock) and a lot better protein skimmer.
With the limited budget you seem to have, it would probably be more prudent to leave your set-up the same for now and do larger more frequent water changes which will bring down the nitrates. (20g once a week) With the cost of salt being so economical, it would be the least costly remedy.
For a true Berlin, you will need approximately 85 to 100 lbs of quality live rock, (porous, not dense rock) and a lot better protein skimmer.
With the limited budget you seem to have, it would probably be more prudent to leave your set-up the same for now and do larger more frequent water changes which will bring down the nitrates. (20g once a week) With the cost of salt being so economical, it would be the least costly remedy.
Thanks for the help guys. If I only would have known they had a berlinmethod.com..hehe, but yea I have been reading like mad about this method but didnt find anything about yanking that biowheel off like that. Anyways I have a uniform Aragonite (1.25-1.50mm) bed about 2.5" inches deep and have very good lighting/ (2) 175 watt halides+2 actinics....Im glad I found this website and message board, its definately a great help!
It is a case of trying out different set ups. This year I added a 20g refugium/sump to my 55 invert tank with 4 - 5" of arogonite live sand. My recent posts re 'bubbles' etc prove that despite a mass of porous live rock, no fish, only inverts, my NO3 hasn't really dropped below 20ppm. The general consensus has been not to place too much emphasis on my NO3 levels as the PO4 is nil and everything else is stable with soft corals growing at an amazing rate, even my bubble coral, acropora and porites seem to be growing. Unlike some of the others, I ere on the side of lower skimming but remember I have no fish and therefore the feeding is lower. What levels of NO3 hacve you experienced? what about PO4? fish stocking levels?
Tony,
Did you stock your DSB with critters?
It could take a substantial amount of time for a new DSB to lower your nitrates. My nitrates fluctuate, but are usually around the 20 range. But before my DSB they were around 80.
I do agree that PO4 would be something you need to pay more attention to.
Did you stock your DSB with critters?
It could take a substantial amount of time for a new DSB to lower your nitrates. My nitrates fluctuate, but are usually around the 20 range. But before my DSB they were around 80.
I do agree that PO4 would be something you need to pay more attention to.
Dan,
I have never added critters into my sand, it appears they came partly from the live rock, also syphon through from the main tank. I even seem to have small shrimp free swimming now as well as numerous species of worm including various bristleworms. My main complaint is the lack of any consistent Nitrate test kit, I have had readings from 12.5ppm to 50ppm from the same water sample????. In addition to this Tetra kits give a reading for marine and one for freshwater in the same kit, the others do not. I basically go on the condition of my corals and their growth rate as well as PO4 and signs of unwanted hair algae. What about yourself? do you consistently get 20ppm readings now it is well matured? As I have no fish and therefore minimal feeding, I would have thought I'd have very very low readings for NO3 but this is not so. I therefore wonder how others, with fish reach nil or ultra low readings...it baffles me.
I have never added critters into my sand, it appears they came partly from the live rock, also syphon through from the main tank. I even seem to have small shrimp free swimming now as well as numerous species of worm including various bristleworms. My main complaint is the lack of any consistent Nitrate test kit, I have had readings from 12.5ppm to 50ppm from the same water sample????. In addition to this Tetra kits give a reading for marine and one for freshwater in the same kit, the others do not. I basically go on the condition of my corals and their growth rate as well as PO4 and signs of unwanted hair algae. What about yourself? do you consistently get 20ppm readings now it is well matured? As I have no fish and therefore minimal feeding, I would have thought I'd have very very low readings for NO3 but this is not so. I therefore wonder how others, with fish reach nil or ultra low readings...it baffles me.
Hey Tony, I wanted to comment on two points you mentioned.
First, that discrepancy you mentioned about your nitrate results sounds alot like something I had as a problem. I found the solution in a mag article. fama 10/2002
It has to do with different tests measuring nitrate/nitrogen vs total nitrogen. Differences between the tests ran on the same water sample tend to be different by 4.4 times the amounts indicated when compared to tests that measure total N, almost what you get when you multiply 12 (one NO3 reading) by 4.4 to get your 50 reading. They are testing properly, just testing for different compounds. Aquarium solutions kits test for nitrate/nitrogen, not total nitrogen. they would be the lower reading. someone correct me if Ive misspoke!
2. Its neat you go with just inverts, no fish. so do I, I think corals are so rare and beautiful fish just dont interest me much. except for seahorses
b429
First, that discrepancy you mentioned about your nitrate results sounds alot like something I had as a problem. I found the solution in a mag article. fama 10/2002
It has to do with different tests measuring nitrate/nitrogen vs total nitrogen. Differences between the tests ran on the same water sample tend to be different by 4.4 times the amounts indicated when compared to tests that measure total N, almost what you get when you multiply 12 (one NO3 reading) by 4.4 to get your 50 reading. They are testing properly, just testing for different compounds. Aquarium solutions kits test for nitrate/nitrogen, not total nitrogen. they would be the lower reading. someone correct me if Ive misspoke!
2. Its neat you go with just inverts, no fish. so do I, I think corals are so rare and beautiful fish just dont interest me much. except for seahorses
b429
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