Just got back from the ER. I'm OK, but a warning to all.

[Anonymous]

Wow Brobak! Glad you're still with us!! Holy crap!

Thanks for sharing your story with all of us. Very scary...


But that's just nasty - squishing a nudi with your fingers?!? eeeewwwww

 

[epon]

My sentiments echo those who are glad you are ok , and grateful for the warning.

 

[Skipper]

Glad to hear there is a not a sad ending to the story. Godspeed on your complete recovery.

 

[Anonymous]

As are the others, glad to hear you're back on the mend.

Question that hasn't come up yet, though. Are you severely allergic to anything else? Bee-stings or something? Lady I used to work with in the LFS in college ended up in the ER from a carpet anemone that got wrapped around her whole arm (biiiig anemone). She was allergic to bee-stings; after 300+ nematocyst injections she was just as bad off as if she had gotten tagged by a bee.

 

[reefann]

Hey man that sucks, so is your boss gona let you keep the tank? Or is everyone scared to enter your office :lol:.
_________________
Indian Creek Designs BKO

 

[brobak]

I posted a link to the picture of the nudi in the original post. But I can try to take a better one this week of just the little guy. I'll see what I can come up with.

Thanks to all who have sent me your stories, and information. Its been 3 days now and everything seems A-ok. Thank you all for your concern.

 

[reefland]

The nudi actually also survived the incident, and was happily munching a polyp.

He's mocking you! Go squish him again and use two fingers this time. :wink:

But seriously, glad to hear your OK. If I wasn't taking my tank down do to a move I would have asked you to mail me that nudi. (serious zoanthid problem).

I saw the picture you posted. Any way of moving the rock close to the glass (and put some gloves on) so you can get a good macro shot?.

 

[Anonymous]

The nudi actually also survived the incident, and was happily munching a polyp.

He's mocking you! Go squish him again and use two fingers this time. :wink:

:lol:

 

[Unarce]

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. You've taught us that you can never be too careful when it comes to reefkeeping.

Thanks for the warning, and I'm glad that you're okay.

 

[AllenF]

I certainly do not want to discount your ordeal. This stuff certainly can be toxic and dangerous. However as I was reading the post I was struck by one thing. The entire set of symptoms you listed are identical to what a person experiences with severe anxiety and panic.

Sometimes it is difficult for medical professionals to discern how much of what you are going through is from the poision, and how much of it is your reaction to the knowledge that you may have been poisened.

The toxic effects can mask the anxiety, or the anxiety can mask the toxic effects or both can work synergistically to make the overall condition that much worse.

I for one think that this merits some ernest medical research so that doctors and researches and hobbiest can know just exactly what the heck they are dealing with in these situations.

There may even be pharmocological uses to what you experienced. Status post open heart patients are intentionally given drugs to raise their blood pressure, given warm blankets to raise their temperature, given stimulants to speed up a slow heart...sound useful...You bet!

Bear in mind that the drug Digitalis use to be used by Voodoo doctors for heart conditions and mixed up in lethal doses to secretly murder someone...now it is one of the most prescribe drugs in the world to treat a rapid heart rate...

 

[JeremyR]

Since the nudis probably hoarded the toxin for defense, you probably got a much higher dose than if you were handling cut up zoos with cuts on your hands. Whether or not anxiety made it worse, I doubt that's what started the incident as fear would have stopped him from squishing it in the first place. Scary stuff.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you sure the toxins can get in your blood without an open cut?
BTW, glad your safe.

 

[Anonymous]

That is quite a story! Glad you're OK and thanks for sharing.

 

[reefarama]

This sounds suspiciously like a panic attack -- the initial one that I had felt exactly as you described.

Keep an open mind about this -- if it happens again, it may not have been a poisoning.

 

[fergy]

Bear in mind that the drug Digitalis use to be used by Voodoo doctors for heart conditions and mixed up in lethal doses to secretly murder someone...now it is one of the most prescribe drugs in the world to treat a rapid heart rate...

Voodoo docs? Hell, it's simply the foxglove plant, and commonly available to anyone with a flower garden ;-)

Anyone care to try some tea? Made it myself...

BRIAN
_________________
Political risk insurance Forum

 

[AllenF]

Voodoo docs? Hell, it's simply the foxglove plant, and commonly available to anyone with a flower garden ;-)

Anyone care to try some tea? Made it myself...

BRIAN

:mrgreen:

Its hard to know really. We know for a fact that it COULD have been toxic because there are many poisionous things that we dont yet understand. We also know for a fact that everyone has moments where they feel their heart pound, feel dizzy and catch their breath...now imagine one of those moments hits you 30 seconds after squshing a reef criter....what in the heck would you think was happening.... easy assumption that youd just been poisoned.

This is why more research is needed to know the false alarms from the real poisionings and more importantly...what to do to treat the real toxic reactions....and it may even save some poor guy the plight of being carried out of his office on a stretcher. 8)

 

[fergy]

Its hard to know really. We know for a fact that it COULD have been toxic because there are many poisionous things that we dont yet understand. We also know for a fact that everyone has moments where they feel their heart pound, feel dizzy and catch their breath...now imagine one of those moments hits you 30 seconds after squshing a reef criter....what in the heck would you think was happening.... easy assumption that youd just been poisoned.

This is why more research is needed to know the false alarms from the real poisionings and more importantly...what to do to treat the real toxic reactions....and it may even save some poor guy the plight of being carried out of his office on a stretcher. 8)

In this case, I think it's pretty clear cut. Most/all nudibranchs that feed on anything toxic incorporate those toxins into their own defense systems, usually located on their backs. And, they concentrate those toxins pretty severely. Brian got himself a nice load of those toxins. As I've stated on other topics before, I myself am sensitive to hydrozoan stings, and have been nailed many times. Instant headache, twitching eyes, etc, all signs of a CNS-affecting toxin.

BRIAN
_________________
American Forum

 

[AllenF]

The stuff was not ingested or entered through they eyes or thorough a cut.

Exactly how strong would a substance have to be to get absorbed transdermally in a second or two a dose high enough to cuse such effects after having contact with a surface area as small as the thumb print?

Not even cyanide or Botulism toxin can do that.

Somthing that poisonous you could almost assisinate a person merly by shaking their hand....

Assuming this is true, a reef tank could require serious background checks...and anyone known to have committed a fellony offense could have their reef confiscated, and anyone associated with terrorist activities could be charged with consipracy on the grounds of having lots of reef setups in their home.

Its a bit difficult to believe....

At least you wont have to worry about them being used as WMDs, they are too difficult to keep! 8O

 

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that he somehow contacted his eyes or mouth with his hand without noticing it? You wouldn't think after squishing a slug...

 

[Marrowbone]

Glad to hear you're Ok, brobak.

Exactly how strong would a substance have to be to get absorbed transdermally in a second or two a dose high enough to cuse such effects after having contact with a surface area as small as the thumb print?

Not even cyanide or Botulism toxin can do that.

Right. It has to be just about the strongest toxin on earth. Where 4 micrograms(?) in your system is a lethal dose. Now where is that thread about the guys dog who died from eating a zoanthid? It had some good info on these toxins.

I think it is definitely possible that the brobak got his dosage without breaking the skin. He pressed the thing with his finger putting himself in direct contact with whatever chemical defence that thing had, which could have been one of those insanely toxic ones in some zoos. It's possible a tiny open cut on his finger could've killed him. 8O