Purple Tang Post Mortum

[Lofus]

I had this guy in my QT for two weeks and he died this morning. I'm not sure why. He was at the LFS for ~5 weeks before I got him.

The QT is a 20 gal with two sponge filters and a bio wheel (left-over filters). I was away for the weekend and one of the sponge filters' air hose had popped off the pump. The water parameters are:

Temp 27 C
SpG 1.020
Amonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 15 ppm

He looked like he had something on his scales but I'm a newbie so I wasn't sure if it was marine velvet or not.

I'm thinking that if the LFS has any left I would bypass the QT and go straight to the main tank with the replacement. What do you think?

 

[wade1]

I would hazard a guess that a) ammonia and b) stress from small space were the culprits if it lived for 5 weeks at the LFS. Depending on the pH, your ammonia level is toxic. Also, your salinity was fairly low. If you look at the edges of the fins, its very common for raggedness to show in times of high stress, either disease or other, although high levels of ammonia commonly cause the fins to look the same. One decent way of knowing is to look at the gills udner a microscope (although not practical for most) and see if there is any tissue damage.

Quarantining is a good thing, but if you saw no spots on it in the LFS, you should probably not have held it for very long as diseases would have appeared by that time.

Wade

 

[wade1]

One other thing to note is the abdominal cavity... its very shrunken as though it wasn't getting enough food. Tangs need a large amount of green vegetables supplemented with a little bit of meaty food on occassion to stay healthy. They have very short digestive tracts and process food poorly and quickly.

Wade

 

[Lofus]

I had let it feed on Nori once a day and there was always excess left over each day when I fed it.

I supplemented once a week with Mysis shrimp. I'm thinking that the amonia spike was a little too much for him. The tank did a mini cycle over the course of the first week he was in there.

I'm just paranoid of getting some parasite into my main tank.

The main tank is a 72 gal with a 15 gal sump. I think he would be better off just going straight into the main tank.

Now I know why everyone says thier next hobby will be banging thier head against the wall while ripping up $20 bills!

 

[Anonymous]

If the fish was eating and not holding/gaining weight, that's very possibly a sign of parasitic infection, or poison exposure. That is one severly emaciated fish you had there.

Do not EVER skip quarantine!

 

[JeremyR]

Nori by itself in a bare Q tank isn't enough. You need to feed it something more substantial if you try again.

 

[Anonymous]

Very good point, Jeremy, but do you think that fish could have gotten that thin after just two weeks of nori and weekly mysis? If it were a horse or other domesticated animal, the poor guy would be fined by Animal (Un)Control for abuse!

It sure does seem to me that it either couldn't metabolize/digest/utilize what nutrition it was getting (via parasite or destruction of gut lining), or it was painfully thin when he got it, as I've only seen a few animals get that thin that quickly (Moorish Idols are one I can think of off the top of my head..and NO, it's not pointed!).

 

[wade1]

And... most mortalities that occur, beyond shipping stresses are due to parasite loads brought in from the wild. And most are not detectable, nor curable.

Wanna see a nasty parasite that you have no clue exists until you kill or stress its host? And this is a big one!

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33264

Wade

 

[Anonymous]

I would feed mysis daily, and probably more on an underweight tang. And personally I think you are better off putting him directly in the main tank than in a sub-par Q-tank.

 

[wade1]

I'd agree with limited quarantine... although I highly disagree with daily mysis. In the wild, tangs rarely eat that much meaty material. Its mainly vegetative. Also, you can readily supplement nori with selcon and vitamins and the like to add more substance to their diet.

Wade

 

[JeremyR]

Sure I've seen fish get thin that fast.. it probably did have a gut parasite, but honestly nori without live rock to graze on will never sustain a tang as a sole food source. I understand where wade is coming from on the wild food thing, but I am also in favor of feeding mysis daily on thin fish untill they recover some body weight, it's not a permanent diet you are putting them on. I have also had success with fish that refused to put on weight even tho they were being OVERfed by mixing piperazine into their food for a few days. There is a recipe somewhere on the web by frank greco on how to get the dosage right. I like fat fish.

 

[ChrisRD]

Just as a useless side note...

While diving in the Caribbean this Spring on vacation I couldn't help but notice how fat the wild tangs where - it was one of the things from the trip that stuck in my mind.

Every tang we saw was eating non-stop and they were all very fat!! Most of the tangs I've seen in aquariums look very thin by comparison.

 

[Anonymous]

If you ever get the chance, take a look at the tangs at the LBAOP. (They're in a Detrol commercial!) They are free fed romaine lettuce, with regular feedings of krill, squid, clam, and shrimp. I've never seen FATTER captive tangs. I haven't seen anyone use nori, but I think that being seaweed, it would be very good for them, and I've liked the results I've seen. Selcon is used daily. My preferred method is to simply offer the option--some take me up on it, some don't (on the meaty foods), some have really surprised me with how much they'll take. Variety is really key, though.

 

[Saltykirk]

All my maintenance tanks use nori and lots of it. They all have live rock too. I have noticed that tangs eat hardier when there is more than one. I will try to get some pics posted to show what I mean. Mysis is good,but tangs will put on lots of weight w/ nori and New Life foods. The quality of the nori is key. I don't get the old stuff that is bagged for the trade. I get the human cosumption that is really green. Tangs and angels sure must notice a difference because they wear it out! I don't buy the purple or red stuff. Heck, it reminds of that Red Man my Dad used to chew. Yuck!
If your next one doesn't eat all that stuff, throw away the old w/i an hour and restock. Tangs gotta eat. Gut parasites will nail a fish though. Anyone find the piperazine dosage?

 

[Terry B]

Skipping quarantine causes more fish deaths than anything else in this hobby so NEVER skip quarantine. A quarantine tank should be kept runnung and cycled at all times so you don't expose fish to ammonia problems in quarantine. I also think that the fish needed a lot more to eat. Since you call yourself a newbie you really shouldn't be attempting tangs, butterflies, angels, or other delicate species until you have successfully maintained easy to keep species long-term. Newbie with delicate fish = dead fish.
Terry B

 

[JeremyR]

I hadn't intended to say nori was bad, just that as a sole food in a bare tank it won't sustain a tang.

I've been looking for the web page I had found that listed the proper dosage.. can't seem to find it.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, Jeremy, I thought you were pretty clear about what you said. I look at tangs like horses--they evolved to graze CONSTANTLY, so in that context I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also think that offering a variety of green/vegetable matter is the best you can do (however, you really can't keep l/r in a q/t).

I also agree COMPLETELY with Terry. I cannot agree more about the utility and necessity of quarantine. I really wonder what kind of shape the fish was in when it was initially purchased, I think it was right on the edge, yeah?

Well, ALL of the Pets Warehouse fishmed links I have are now replaced with a legal writ. :roll: When I can I'll have to check my old machine and see if I cached them offline.