[b]Yet Another Ich Question. Please Help! [/b]

[gravedigger2step]

Thank you to all who read this and help:
So the other day, my roomate decided to surprise me with a Regal Tang, he acclimated the fish to the water for 45 min., and dumped it in. When I came home, the fish was already in the tank. I was in shock and tried to play it off as friendly as I could (even though I was steaming inside) and be accepting to the gesture. I just started reefkeeping and have been trying to take proper precautions so as to make sure my fish all love their home and are happy. I have been quarantining a Flame Angel in another tank, and it kills me that he went ahead and dumped in the fish. Surprisingly, the fish took to the tank great. He looked extremely healthy, and has been eating like a mad-man. I performed a water change on Tuesday night, fed them as normal (ate great), and did a water test on Wednesday (8/28 ). My water parameters were perfect.

When I came home later that night, I noticed my Regal had what looked like ICH. (I was ready to punch my roomate). I sat down and thought about what to do. I fed the fish and they ate again as normal. After reading a bunch of articles on various websites, people seemed to say that ICH is like a common cold and that fish can get over it on their own. It can come and go and fish can develop a stronger immune system to it. I initially was going to swap fish and put the HEALTHY and Perfect Flame Angel in the 90 GAL, and take the Regal out and put him in the Q-T. This of course was not successful as the Regal wouldn't let the Net get close to him before he darted into the Reef.

So my question is, here i sit, at work, wondering and worrying what the hell to do? What are the consequences I am facing now? What can I do to ensure ICH wont come in again? What can I do to get rid of it NOW! Garlic? Ginger? Cleaner Shrimp? (JUST HELP ME PLEASE!) Is it extremely contagious? I obviously want to wait now to put my Flame in...but please give me some serious advice as to what steps to take. Should I be crapping my pants in maddness? Should I stay calm and know that everything will be allright? I have read numerous articles and guides on what to do and they are really just not personalized to my situation as I would like them to be. All help is greatly appreciated and please feel free to keep giving advice.

I have a 90 Gal Reef Tank with some Corals, 1 Regal Blue Tang, 2 False Perculas, 5 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp, Starfish, Snails, and Crabs. Wet/Dry, UV Steri., 4 PC, Chiller. (Its a great setup and the tank is perfect, minus the exception of ICH!!). Please help me contain this situation ASAP so I can enjoy my tank to the fullest. It might as well be a child to me as I worry about it day and night and wont be fully happy until everthing is "kosher". Thank you AGAIN!!

 

[mountainbiker619]

There are a few ways to go about this:

1. You can remove ALL fish and treat in a seperate tank.
2. You can keep the fish where they are now and let nature take its course. Most likely if the fish continue to eat well that they will fully recover. You can use Garlic, but do not reply on it for it is not fully garunteed to work.

I initially was going to swap fish and put the HEALTHY and Perfect Flame Angel in the 90 GAL, and take the Regal out and put him in the Q-T.

That would had been a Big no no. The life cycle of Ick is around 30-45 days. If you would have done the switch, your Flame would had surely come down with Ick also.

Which ever step you take, do not place any new fish into the main tank for no less than 45 days.

 

[gravedigger2step]

Thank you for your advice.
1. I would have no problem getting the two false perculas out, however, they look perfect, are swimming around and eating, and I have nowhere to put them right now, as my 10 gal qt has the flame.
2. I would have to take apart the reef to get the Tang out as he hides at the site of the big green monster (net) and I really want to stay away from that.

Please keep giving advice people. I NEED IT and I am LISTENING!

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome tp reefs.org! Sorry you have to deal with this.

So my question is, here i sit, at work, wondering and worrying what the hell to do?

How bad is the infection? If it is not so bad, and its not spreading to other fish, I would do nothing beyond keeping the fish well fed and keeping the tank stable.

What are the consequences I am facing now?The main one I can see is having to tell your roomate never to do that again.

What can I do to ensure ICH wont come in again?

IMO, you cant. Take reasonable precautions, dont add sick fish, and use your q tank and you should be fine.

What can I do to get rid of it NOW!

It doesnt work like that. Ich has a 30 day lifecycle, so you cant get rid of it 'now'. In the reef tank, you really only have two choices: hyposalinity (but I dont think you need to go there) and waiting it out. As with everything in reefing, patience is the key.

Garlic? Ginger? Cleaner Shrimp?

There is no evidence to think ginger is helpful at all. Cleaner shrimp do nothing for ich. Garlic is questionable. If you fish are eating well, I think you will be fine.

(JUST HELP ME PLEASE!) Is it extremely contagious?

It can be. How bad is the infection now?

I obviously want to wait now to put my Flame in

Good!

...but please give me some serious advice as to what steps to take.

First things first, dont panic or do anything rash. The trick now is not to stress the tank so hopefully the other fish will not get infected. Keep feeding and I think the fish will fight it off on their own.

Should I be crapping my pants in maddness? Should I stay calm and know that everything will be allright?

Well, you can crap your pants if that is what you are into. Stay calm is the best thing you can do.


Also, more info on your system would be helpful. How old is it and stuff.

RR

 

[gravedigger2step]

How bad is the infection?

Probably a max of 10 spots on each side. Not bad, i just monitor my fish carefully and I noticed them right away. My roomate looked at the fish after I yelled at him to get his ass over to it to check it out, and was like what spots. So that probably means that the infection isnt too bad. There are a few white spots also...but im not sure if that is White Ich, or just debris.

Also, more info on your system would be helpful. How old is it and stuff.

90 Gal. Reef. Ran it for a solid month after I bought it. Had it for about 2. Bought it used and the guy before me had an unbelievable setup. Lots of Live Rock. Live Sand. I listed the inhabitants. Ricordia Mushrooms, Hammer Coral, Star Polyps, Plate Coral.
Let me know what else I can tell you so that you can better help me.
THANK YOU.

 

[Anonymous]

I would make sure they get fed a lot and keep an eye on them.

Was the setup stocked when you got it?

 

[gravedigger2step]

Was the setup stocked when you got it?

no it was not. Just Live Rock.

I would make sure they get fed a lot and keep an eye on them.

I feed them every night. Pellets and Frozen Brine. The Regal gets excited and will eat everything he can.

Should I feed him Garlic?


Thank you for your help. If anybody else has suggestions please keep giving them. MY EARS ARE OPEN!!! :?:[/quote]

 

[gravedigger2step]

Is there ever a 100% ICH Free tank? Or is there always a chance of ich? Is it like a cold? Can come and go or what?

 

[cdeakle]

Good QT practices will severely reduce chances of getting ick again. The UV Sterilizer is also a good piece of equipment to help kill the ich off faster.

I did have a friend that got ich in his well established tank and he didnt add any new livestock for the last year before getting the ich. I wonder if he got it from his LR? He had said that he rearranged his LR the night before and that was the onlything thing that had changed recently in his tank.....

 

[cdeakle]

Also,

Coral-vital is a good additive to add to your tank. It helps to stop the ich from attaching to the fish's skin. Its also natural and is not considered to be "medicating" your tank.

 

[gravedigger2step]

Some discussions showed that ICH can just pop up from higher stress levels. So does that mean that it is just lying dormant in the fish? Is there ever a 100% sure way to not get ICH? The only thing I can think about is that I did a water change the night before I noticed the Ich. Kinda ironic, im doing something good for the tank, and the fish gets ich. Keep bringing the advice. I appreciate it.

 

[Anonymous]

I meant to ask if it was an established tank when you got it.

IME garlic does nothing. While some swear by it, I think it is more of a way to make the tank owner feel like they are doing something rather than a way to cure the fish.

Without getting too far inot it, there are a host of products/methods that are supposed to help with ich -garlic, ginger, uv sterilizers, weiss products, cleaner shrimp, kick ich - the list goes on. Some argue that the UV sterilizer is actually harmful to the reef tank, as are kick ich and other 'reef safe' products. It is quite difficult to tell if any of the mentioned products do anything, as success in clearing up the parisite is about the same if you use them or not. Again, some people swear by a particular treatment, and many heated arguments have erupted in their regard, but I think time and effort is better spent making sure you have good water quality, and happy well fed fish.

Some say ich is always in the tank, just not showing itself, perhaps going through its lifecycle without notice. Others say if your tank is fishless for 60 days or so, the lifecycle of the parasite is broken and it cannot surrive. Still others say it can be imported into the tank via corals, rock and sand.

There are two proven methods to deal with the parasite. Copper, which cannot be used in a reef tank, and hyposalinity, which IMO is a pain in the butt.

Your case seems very mild, and hopefully it will clear up by itself soon enough.

:mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Also,

Coral-vital is a good additive to add to your tank. It helps to stop the ich from attaching to the fish's skin. Its also natural and is not considered to be "medicating" your tank.

I respectfully disagree. Not only do we not know what is actually in Coral vital, but there is no explanitaion as to the mechanism of the claim that it stops ich from attaching to the fish's skin. And there is no data to support that it actually does what it claims.

Marc Weiss products in general have fantastic claims, with no evidence to back them up. This alone makes me leery of them.

I avoid additives in general. If you can't test for it, and don't know what it is, I don't think it should go in your tank. When I started I tried them all, and it made me feel like I was doing something, but I don't think they actually helped the tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Some discussions showed that ICH can just pop up from higher stress levels. So does that mean that it is just lying dormant in the fish?

It may not be dormant, it may just not be successful to the level of being seen. The cold anology is pretty good. You can have a cold but not notice it until you get a bad nights sleep and forget to eat well. Then, because your body is compromised, the cold is able to get a better hold and you get sick.

Is there ever a 100% sure way to not get ICH?

Other than not having fish, I don't think so.

The only thing I can think about is that I did a water change the night before I noticed the Ich. Kinda ironic, im doing something good for the tank, and the fish gets ich. Keep bringing the advice. I appreciate it.

I don't think it was the water changes. Tangs are know as ich magnets and often get a mild case soon after being added to a tank.

 

[cdeakle]

"I avoid additives in general. If you can't test for it, and don't know what it is, I don't think it should go in your tank"

I respectfully agree!

 

[Anonymous]

In answer to the question above, YES there is such a thing as an ich free tank. Mine are, because I quarantine. The notion that ich is always present in the tank is naive. C. irritans an animal that must be able to complete it's life cycle in order to reproduce. It can't just hang out for months and years waiting for a fish to get stressed. Don't introduce it into a display, and you will never have it.

Regards
Jim

 

[Anonymous]

That does seem to go aginst the reports of ich popping up months or years after any fish has been added to the system.
What do you think of the idea of ich being transported into a system on rocks or corals? What do you think about the idea that ich is in the tank, going on about its lifecycle, just not in noticable numbers?

 

[gravedigger2step]

Friday morning Update:
I fed my tank again last night and all the fish were eating very well.
I checked out the Regal last night and the number of spots on him has definitely diminished, by I would say about half. Prolly only a few black spots on him now. (YAY!!!!)

Some argue that the UV sterilizer is actually harmful to the reef tank

I have heard that I should turn run it with my lights, so as to not just let it run all the time. Is this accurate? Every few days I let the UV light run, and then turn it off for a day or 2. and just keep repeating the action. Comments?

 

[Anonymous]

Friday morning Update:
I fed my tank again last night and all the fish were eating very well.
I checked out the Regal last night and the number of spots on him has definitely diminished, by I would say about half. Prolly only a few black spots on him now. (YAY!!!!)

Remember that this is natural for the lifecycle of the parasite. Look for the reappearance of the spots in 6-10 days. If they do come back, hopefully there will be less, not more, than there were originally.

I have heard that I should turn run it with my lights, so as to not just let it run all the time. Is this accurate? Every few days I let the UV light run, and then turn it off for a day or 2. and just keep repeating the action. Comments?

Never heard that. How big is the UV?

 

[gravedigger2step]

Never heard that. How big is the UV?

Couldn't tell you. It came with the System. Its about 2 feet long. Mabye a foot and a half. Somebody just told me that if i let it run allways, it kills virtually all that passes through it which is good, however, some good bacteria passes through it which you dont want to kill. What do you think? Should I just leave it on? Should I run it on a schedule?