mr wombat, thanks. the float ball does not interfere with the flapper at all. its out of the way when the water rises and when it drains it floats until the flapper closes. im useing twist ties to connect the ball to the flapper, works well and you can adjust the length of the twist ties to apply tension on the ball to help the flapper do its job.
surge device
- Thread starter t gallo
- Start date
Had to bring this one back, as I'm working with all sorts of surges right now, I've made about 10 different variations of the carlson and borneman devices. I have a question for t gallo (or anyone who might have an idea)... when i work with the exact same device you posted pics of on my 55 gallon "surge test system", with a 2" outlet, I get COPIOUS amounts of bubbles. The thing dumps about 5 gallons from a rubbermaid trashcan it is mounted in, (I recently went and bought ten, just to cut holes in them :roll: ) in under 4-5 seconds...surges like h*ll...but the overflow pipe tends to act as a venturi and sucks a ton of air into the drain pipe and into the tank. When you posted, you said that a bubble went up in the overflow pipe and then drained. I am confused! Does this guy not fill your tank with microbubbles as well? In Borneman's design in "aquarium corals", he has it done with 2" to reducer to 1" drain pipe. When I tested this first, It worked like a charm, but simply didn't drain as fast as I wanted, and so per his suggestion that any diameter pipe could be used, I upped the diameter of the drain. The only difference between your surge and mine,(besides mine is in a trash can), is that yours is positioned quite a ways above the water level. Mine is resting on top of the tank for the time being, do you think this maybe responsible for the venturi effect? I may try two things, try a 1 1/2" drain pipe and see what that does, or lift the surge somewhat above the water level. By the way, this is testing for a future 180 gallon, so I am doing some serious experimenting. Thanks in advance! Joey
4-5 seconds is very fast. I have a 1" return, but it's on a 30 gallon. I can't think of a way to stop the air from being sucked in, other than lowering the bucket or using smaller diameter pipe. It's caused by the very fast water flowing down the pipe. You could try drilling a small hole (3/16") just above the water line at the outlet. This might allow some air to escape. Sorry this probably doesn't help much, but I never encountered this problem.
Of course, I happen to think microbubbles aren't so bad.
Matt
Of course, I happen to think microbubbles aren't so bad.
Matt
Dude, this thing is like a skimmer, the bubbles don't even clear between surges. I LOVE the flow, I wish I could get the thing to function correctly with a 2" drain, but I don't think it will...I'm hoping the author will chime in and let me know if his does the same billowing cloud during the surge. The funny thing is, it is really quiet, it seems like it should be crazy loud to see the storm it creates in the tank. Love the thing, don't mind a little bit of bubbles, but this guy would have some corals slimin' like h*ll! I might give the hole in the pipe a try, my luck it will make another venturi... 8O Joey
Okay, the question was how do you keep the overflow from siphoning and acting as a venturi upon release. I know the device is good, I have built a variation of every surge I could find, in every concievable size, and have decided I like the action of the Borneman flush the best. But when I use the 2" diameter pipe I get a serious cloud of microbubbles that cannot be regarded as "good for corals" by anyone who knows about coral bubble irritation and the copious sliming associated with it. That said, if I cannot get the flow associated with the 2" diameter outlet with it's short duration burst and wide flow dispersion, I will have to research some more into other methods of surging (besides the Carlson, reverse Carlson and Borneman flapper methods). Does anyone know what I am talking about here or am I doing something seriously wrong? Any tips on how to remedy this?
All I can think of is to try that hole, and maybe try restricting the air getting into the overflow somehow. Maybe a cap over the overflow with a hole in it. Methinks this will just interfere with the function of the flapper, though. Cover the overflow with your hand and you'll see what I mean. It's strange that you're getting such small bubbles. The opening is huge and not like what you'd think of as a venturi, eh? You might want to ask Eric Borneman himself... just a thought 
BTW, nobody believes me when I say these things aren't that loud. I'm glad someone else can back it up.
BTW, nobody believes me when I say these things aren't that loud. I'm glad someone else can back it up.
j french, sorry i havent been around for the last week to answer , the main source of bubbles is the 3/4 overflow built into the flapper, i will be trying a pingpong ball secured over the 3/4 overflow by a fishing line and it will rise only about 1 inch to start the siphon when the water level goes up and when the surge starts and the water level drops the pingpong ball should drop and close the overflow and reduce the venture affect in thoery. i havent tried it yet so cant say for sure if it will work 100 percent but i think it will cut down on bubbles by at least half or better.
I don't believe this will work, as when you place your hand over the overflow tube mid-flush, it tends to make the flapper "hiccup", mainly because the siphon is great enough to pull the flapper shut. I think that I will be using the 1 1/2" pipe on the device, as it tends to cut down somewhat on the bubbles, the downside being the surge is twice as long, and not nearly as forceful as the 2".
As a note to all who have not experimented with surges, although they do require a bit of fidgeting, I can honestly say I will never build another tank that does not incorporate a surge device of some sort. For example, while testing a double borneman surge on my 55 test tank, I was hoping to use the 2" diameter outlet for them both. Let's just say there is absolutely no comparison between powerhead/pump type conventional current generating and surges. I literally had to turn the system off at one point as the movement threatened to send waves out onto the floor(kinda wish I had just let it go and taken a picture :lol: ).Give them a try if you haven't yet...your corals will thank you, and it makes it easier to get feedback for us guys who are trying to fine tune ours as well :wink: .
Joey
As a note to all who have not experimented with surges, although they do require a bit of fidgeting, I can honestly say I will never build another tank that does not incorporate a surge device of some sort. For example, while testing a double borneman surge on my 55 test tank, I was hoping to use the 2" diameter outlet for them both. Let's just say there is absolutely no comparison between powerhead/pump type conventional current generating and surges. I literally had to turn the system off at one point as the movement threatened to send waves out onto the floor(kinda wish I had just let it go and taken a picture :lol: ).Give them a try if you haven't yet...your corals will thank you, and it makes it easier to get feedback for us guys who are trying to fine tune ours as well :wink: .
Joey
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