Weekly Discussion - Shopping at large chain stores

[Anonymous]

Weekly Discussion - Shopping at large chain stores

Sometimes large chain stores have great deals on livestock and dry goods. However, given the 'horror' stories about the animal husbandry of such stores, and their impact on small LFS, should we be supporting them?

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[Anonymous]

I don't think we should support them in any way. They are chop shops concerned with volume, not the health of their animals, specially saltwater animals. All the big chains in my area have no idea what they are doing, change staff every week, always have sick and dead fish in their tanks, and don't seem to care. I know that there is the odd chain store that seems to have a good system, but I am willing to bet that it lasts less than a year, as anyone good enough to make it work will move on quickly (butting heads with managent for instance would be enough to make good people bail).
I don't think we should by anything from these stores, because giving them money only makes them more successful.

 

[Len]

My opinion: Marine fish and coral husbandry is a highly specialized hobby that few chain stores are currently capable (or interested) in marketing conscientiously. I would love to see them get their act together, but with the economics of their type of business, I don't think it's likely. And because of the scale of their operations, reform is a herculian task. So I refrain from buying from chain stores out of principles of ethics, and also out of practicality. It's not like these chain stores are cheaper then specialized LFS or mail order, so why would I pay the same (or more) for lesser quality merchandise? I wish chain stores were more interested in captive bred livestock as well.

 

[danmhippo]

Until I find one that their staff really knows what they have just killed, you can find me at those niche stores.

 

[fergy]

Righty Posted: 22 Apr 2003 15:50 Post subject:

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I don't think we should support them in any way. They are chop shops concerned with volume, not the health of their animals, specially saltwater animals. All the big chains in my area have no idea what they are doing, change staff every week, always have sick and dead fish in their tanks, and don't seem to care.

'Tis no different for my local specialty stores. There is only one which I could consider mediocre. The rest are death in a retail location.

None of the large chain stores in my area deal with marine livestock, though they stock dry goods such as IO salt. That's really the only thing I purchase there, when the niche stores are out.

BRIAN

 

[dragonkid]

so far i have never been to a chain store that has saltwater (why would i even look?) but, i own reptiles,animals,and i get VERY angry when i see reptiles being starved or having parasites ,and i get angry when i see their dogs being mistreated,like a petland in my area has a great dane and a rottweiler (not in same enclosure) in about 6x3x3 spaces....and snakes and geckos being starved untill they're skin and bones :evil: :evil: ! which in no way should be done...if you arnt responsible enough to take your animal to the vet,you should have one...if you can feed your animal,you shouldnt have it,if you have an animal in an enclosure that isnt sutible for it,guess what,you shouldnt have it....i DO NOT support chain stores....all they are out for is the money,and not the well being of the animals.....its disgusting what they do...and that is why i only go to small independet stores...they take care of their animals, (mostly because if it dies then they didnt get their profit,and that has a bigger impact on them then it does with chains) feed ther animals,and make sure they dont have any kind of sickness before they sell them....thats just my two cents...

 

[Anonymous]

We have a chain store near us, but I try not to go there any more because the conditions are horrible. The nearest specialty store is also horrible. So, it is about an hour drive to the nearest "decent" store. The chain store near me will tell you that anything will fit in a 55 gal tank. Example, Panther Grouper, Emporer Snapper etc etc..

Stay with the small stores.

Bryan Flanigan

 

[baseman]

My tank is new (6 months), but it's not my first tank. When I kept freshwater tanks, I always supported the LFS (years ago, different state). I purchased almost everything for my current tank at a LFS(all the livestock came from there). I know there are things I could have gotten cheaper, but my LFS is very knowledgable, and I felt it was worth the price for the advice on how to set things up. I have purchased some things at a local chain, but only dry goods I needed that either the LFS didn't have or because it's closer. There is another LFS in the area that looks more like a chain. Big store, lots of stuff, but the last time I was in there, one tank had about 6 dead fish in it.
To make a long story longer, I really only support one store.

 

[Apophis924]

I myself do not like chain stores, they smell bad, and the staff as most have said here do not have an understanding of the animals they are selling. I have not seen any saltwater chains but i do buy my frozen foods from them from time to time. I just dont understand why fish are treated so badly and it is legal. If you treated a dog or a cat they way these aquarium fish are treated would be locked up asap. ever go to a walmart and see the conditions the fish live in? i dont know how many times i have bought a fish from there just to nurse it back to health and donate it to the mom and pop LFS in my area. Not a bad deal since they will give me a small discount when i buy my saltwater animals from time to time.

 

[Len]

Gathering the replies thus far, I'd like to know how many people shop at large chain stores, and why? I just want to the hear opinions for the other side of glass

 

[wally311]

IMO, Len, there is no "other side of the glass" in this hobby. "Cheaper" prices are about all you can hope for from one of these chain stores. The PetCo in my area stocks a lot of captive bred SW fish (clowns, dottybacks, etc.) but their tanks are so bad that unless you're there right when they come in, to buy them out of the bag, forget about it. As far as SW goes, stick to your LFS and mail order. And on a side note, don't hold the kid selling livestock at one of these chain stores responsible. He/she is just trying to do thier job. It's the poeple ordering these animals in, knowing that they don't have a qualified staff, who should be responsible. I have worked in the business, and its not rocket science, it just takes some interest and some concern.

-Troy

 

[Anonymous]

And on a side note, don't hold the kid selling livestock at one of these chain stores responsible. He/she is just trying to do thier job. It's the poeple ordering these animals in, knowing that they don't have a qualified staff, who should be responsible.

I disagree. By that reasoning, we shouldn't hold the customer responsible for supporting the chain store either, as they are just trying to save money - it isn't their fault the managemnet of the store are sleazy.
The people who work there choose to work there, no one is forcing them. The people who shop there are choose to shop there, no one is forcing them. They may be ignorant of how bad the store is, but I don' think this relieves the responsibity of supporting the icky practices of such chain stores.


And, the Petco in my town is the only place within 10 miles that carries the dog food I use, so once and a while I have go there in a pinch. I always feel bad about it, and to alleviate my anxiety I hang out in the fish room trying to steer people away from making stupid mistakes.

 

[wally311]

Well, OK. I'm guilty of generalizing here. The point I was trying to make is that we were all nieve once. We, as responsible reef keepers (or keepers of any other animals for that matter) should take into account where our info comes from. Chances are that that kid at the store has a genuine interest in pets, but those stores don't really screen or train you much on what the different requirements are. If they are not qualified to work there, they shouldn't have been put in charge of the SW fish. I know that not all PetCo or PetsMart employees are 16 and not all the poeple in those SW departments are totally ignorant. BUT, IME and IMO, when it comes to SW, the general chain store employee does not know much, if anything, from experience, they just know what the "fact sheet" told them, which was probably given to them by thier manager. Therfore, they are just doing thier job. Is it right? I don't know. Do we blame the employee or the employer? Again, I don't know. But I do know that I know better than to take advice from someone at a store where they are keeping tridacna clams in a 10 gallon Eclipse system!

-Troy

 

[Anonymous]

I ordered 4 200 gal buckets of Instant Ocean from PetsFart mail order for about $30 each with a free shipping promotion they were stupid enough to offer. I reckon they spent more shipping it to me than they made on the sale by about a factor of 2.

Heh heh.

Otherwise I try to avoid them.


Years ago I was having lunch with the owner of the LFS of my childhood saltwater days, and she was complaining about how people would buy all their equipment and everything there and then go to her store for the livestock because it was well cared for. she said that she basically broke even on the fish and the profit was in the other stuff, which she was losing. It was forcing her out of business. Then after lunch she went to one of those office max places to buy office supplies.

I think we have to oppose this sort of phenomena across the board, not just with pet stores. They are a symptom of the much bigger problem of homoginization/McDonaldization of American society.

Well, I need some coffee. I'm off to Starbucks now.

 

[investigator1]

I only shop at large pet store for dry goods and equipment. Th reason being is that they are hands down cheaper for said items.

-However, I shop at ***** for supplies and once saw a tank containing 15 dead percula clowns, 5 grasping for life, and 3 still swimming but completely starved.
-So I did what a responsible reef keeper would and complained to the manager. The manager stated, "These things happen because they are delicate."
-I became enraged but did not voice my opinion at that time. I then took my trusty old investigation tool......EL CAMERA...and began snapping away over the next several months at their animal conditions.
-To date I am compiling a multi jurisdiction class action case against the chain.

(Never anger an investigator)

IF ANYONE HAS ANY PHOTOGRAPHIC DOCUMENTATION PLEASE PM IT TO ME.

I will post the report when it is complete.

 

[bradsark]

It seems to me that those working at small or local fish stores are no more competent than those at the large chain stores...so I guess it just becomes a matter of price (unfortunately).

 

[Anonymous]

I ADMIT I SHOP AT CHAIN STORES.

This week I bought a 2" purple firefish from PETCO. Price 11.99. That's $20 cheaper than anywhere else I have found one, and he's the perfect size for my 15 gal reef. Do I feel bad I supported a chain store? Maybe. Call it justification, But I know that fish will be better cared for in my tank than is some Schmo who is setting up their first saltwater tank.
"Wow, Honey, that fish is sooo pretty! Can we put it in with the orchid dotty-thingy we have, You know the blue and orange one?
Sure, sweetie, anything you want."

So yeah, I do shop at chain stores.

Money wise, it's the same to me as mail order. You're getting the items for the best possible price. Either way, you're not spending money on your (higher priced just-so-they-can-pay-their-rent-but-we-all-know-that) LFS's.

It doesn't help that the LFS I used to shop at has a DICK for an owner.
One day I went in looking at the new corals he got in, and asked him "what kind of coral is that?" (now I know it was a yellow fox) It was a small frag, one that would fit in my 15. He said, "You don't want to buy that." AND HE TURNED AND WALKED AWAY FROM ME. (never answering my question)

SO I don't buy anything from him anymore. (YES< IT WAS World Class aquarium in Brooklyn)

Brett

 

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that those working at small or local fish stores are no more competent than those at the large chain stores...so I guess it just becomes a matter of price (unfortunately).

I think it is more than a matter of price as the chain stores are based on volume. They want to sell a lot of animals, and they order animals in bulk which means many more die in transit. This applies to the entire chain, not one store, like a single LFS.

. Call it justification, But I know that fish will be better cared for in my tank than is some Schmo who is setting up their first saltwater tank.

For me, this is the real issue, that of 'saving' a fish. Everytime you buy one, you let the store know that there is a market, so they order more. If no one buys it, they are much less likely to order more. Its seems like a case of sacrifice some to save many.
I remember buying an iguana from petco to save it, after watching dozens of them die over the course of a month. The next week they got 50 more.