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Anonymous
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http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=1
I thought it was worth the read all the way through.
I thought it was worth the read all the way through.
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Anonymous
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FYI, the title of the thread above is called "What to do with DSB at 5 years? "
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Anonymous
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Pretty interesting, for a number of reasons.
It seems clearer to me that people incorrectly think DSB's are 'set it and forget it' magic.
It seems clearer to me that people incorrectly think DSB's are 'set it and forget it' magic.
manny":1o93w0yt said:What's wrong with set it and forget it? Does something go bad in a DSB.
You need to be sure that your sanbed is active. If it isn't it can become a nutrient sink.
I also, introduce new sand and critters a couple times a year, and from time to time, I hook up the magnum with a micron charidge (or a filter sock on the overflow lines in the sump) and stir things up a bit to remove detritus.
I have zero nitrates with a 1/2 inch sand bed, but I thought about a DSB in the fuge I'm making...should I reconsider this because I already have good nitrate control without it?
There is some discussion about the ineffectiveness of remote dsb's, and the potential harm they may cause by becoming a nutrient sink.
The problem as I see it is there really doesn't seem to be data on either side of the dsb/barebottom arguments. The discussions mostly seem to be people saying what they think is going on, but saying it staunchly as fact.
I've been through too many 20-page threads on this, so can someone just give me the cliff notes on this one simple question-
Back when, the idea of a DSB (from Dr. Ron, I might add), of sugar-sized particles, was to maximize the total surface area on which denitrifying bacteria could thrive, thus keeping your nitrates at an extremely low level.
When did that whole idea go out the window? Now it's all about the pods and worms to even make it work?
TIA
HD
Back when, the idea of a DSB (from Dr. Ron, I might add), of sugar-sized particles, was to maximize the total surface area on which denitrifying bacteria could thrive, thus keeping your nitrates at an extremely low level.
When did that whole idea go out the window? Now it's all about the pods and worms to even make it work?
TIA
HD
I find Ron, though I like his style and his enthusiam, and though many bow to him, to be a little lacking in the back up your claims department.
AFAIK, the ide of thriving denitrifying bacteria has not gone out the window.
However, there now seem to be more opinions on DSB's then there are on lighting and tangs.
AFAIK, the ide of thriving denitrifying bacteria has not gone out the window.
However, there now seem to be more opinions on DSB's then there are on lighting and tangs.
That's why I don't understand why he dismisses the idea of a remote DSB. Just because critters may not get the rood, the bacteria that eats it, produces nitrite, which is eaten by bacteria that produces nitrate, which is eaten by bacteria which produce nitrogen should still handle it, right?
He was saying that the surface area, pod density and denitrifying bacterial load all play together in an efficient bed. I believe he said the pods and assorted worms produce motion in the bed that moves nutrients down into the recesses of the bed where the denitrifiers live. He is saying IIRC that too little pod action results in too slow or no transfer of compounds into the anoxic bed areas.
Brandon M.
Brandon M.
He mentions sand-sifters as primary predators on the motion-inducing critters, thereby reducing sandbed nutrient transport.
Concerning nanos, he is saying that typically oxygen permeation is such that no anoxic zones can exist because bed volume is restricted. Even a four-inch bed in a nano does not seem to be effective at creating anoxic zones. However, anoxic zone maintenance is a function of sand grain size, detrital loading, algae in the bed and available light to shine on them (where they produce oxygen that further restricts the anoxic environement) and current in the system and also at the substrate/water interface. I think there are ways to create anoxic environments in nanos, but the scaling and proportions of sand, water and rock would be so far out of whack no one would want to look at the tank. In most instances, a nano DSB is good for housing worms and assorted bed animals that are fun to watch as they track through the bed. They can even play a role in processing detritus, but not the complete cycle to gaseous nitrogen.
Brandon M.
Concerning nanos, he is saying that typically oxygen permeation is such that no anoxic zones can exist because bed volume is restricted. Even a four-inch bed in a nano does not seem to be effective at creating anoxic zones. However, anoxic zone maintenance is a function of sand grain size, detrital loading, algae in the bed and available light to shine on them (where they produce oxygen that further restricts the anoxic environement) and current in the system and also at the substrate/water interface. I think there are ways to create anoxic environments in nanos, but the scaling and proportions of sand, water and rock would be so far out of whack no one would want to look at the tank. In most instances, a nano DSB is good for housing worms and assorted bed animals that are fun to watch as they track through the bed. They can even play a role in processing detritus, but not the complete cycle to gaseous nitrogen.
Brandon M.
hiddendragonet":3k7fngrx said:That's why I don't understand why he dismisses the idea of a remote DSB. Just because critters may not get the rood, the bacteria that eats it, produces nitrite, which is eaten by bacteria that produces nitrate, which is eaten by bacteria which produce nitrogen should still handle it, right?
From what I gather, he is saying the food doesn't make it to the remote bed in any helpful sense - it stays in the main tank. Nothing in the remote bed gets the 'rood'.
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