Marinemix Bioassay analysis results

[rharker]

Here's something to ponder while we await the testing of other salts. Here's what Marinemix Bioassay looks like in mg/l:

Aluminum .23
Boron 7.8
Barium .034
Cobalt 24.
Chromium .046
Copper .009
Lithium 8.4
Manganese .0036
Molybdenum .007
Lead .05
Strontium 4.4
Zinc .003

It turns out that Bioassay is not low in metals. It just contains a different brew than IO.

 

[Ben1]

How does this compair to NSW?

Thanks

 

[rfb3]

Check this out...

http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dy...eping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.htm

Any thoughts? I am a newbie about to start the hobby...

Thanks,
Freddie

 

[MiNdErAsR]

Here's something to ponder while we await the testing of other salts. Here's what Marinemix Bioassay looks like in mg/l:...It turns out that Bioassay is not low in metals. It just contains a different brew than IO.

Who did the tests? How were they done? How do they compare to Ron's results? We need info man! Don't just leave us hanging!

 

[mojodeli]

Check out this thread.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... t=bioassay

Do not use this salt - EVER!!! :x

 

[rayjay]

Rejecting use of a salt based on a thread in a forum with no other corroborating evidence sure doesn't make sense in my mind.
You haven't taken into account the many hobbyists that have changed over and had no problems at all.
By the way, I use IO and here where I live there is only IO and Tropic Marin available so I'm certainly not trying to defend something I use.

 

[mojodeli]

Use the salt if you want. I had four corals immediately bleach and then die after a 3 gallon water change on my 125. I am an experienced Reefer and my experience is the same as many other experienced and respected reefers.

Go ahead and use the salt. It's cheap and hopefully you'll have good results. I'm back to IO and will stay there.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you seen the threads on the 'bad batch' of IO that kills your tank?

 

[ChrisRD]

I killed off most of my tank by doing a water change with Crystal Sea Bioassay mix (the tank was mostly SPS). I think I'll reject it based on first-hand experience.

 

[rharker]

Who did the tests? How were they done? How do they compare to Ron's results? We need info man! Don't just leave us hanging!

The metals were measured using the same methods Ron used, so the numbers are comparable. The tests are part of a larger project that I'm working on and all the details will be presented when I write everything up. The results suggest perhaps that some of the problems experienced switching over to Marinemix may be due to the difference in metals, rather than the absence of metals.

 

[GSchiemer]

Richard,

Just to be certain that I'm understanding your post, these results are in mg/l; therefore Marinemix tested at 24 mg/l for cobalt and 8.4 mg/l for lithium, etc.?!

Greg

Ps: Looking forward to the whole story.

 

[rharker]

Just to be certain that I'm understanding your post, these results are in mg/l; therefore Marinemix tested at 24 mg/l for cobalt and 8.4 mg/l for lithium, etc.?!

Hi Greg. You are correct. All the numbers are in mg/l. Cobalt and lithium were considerably higher than Ron's numbers for IO, as was chromium. IO had detectable tin, antimony, nickel, zinc, and others while Marinemix did not. That's why I said it is a different mix of metals.

The numbers are for ASW that mixed up to 35ppt on my hydrometer. Sodium measured 11000 mg/l at that salinity, so using Ron's "salinity" adjustment of using 10000 mg/l, one could argue that one should use a multiplier of .91 to compare Ron's IO numbers to these Marinemix numbers. (It isn't clear that using sodium is the best way to make salinity adjustments, but that's what he did.)

 

[GSchiemer]

Richard,

Where and how did you obtain your samples/sample of Marinemix?

I couldn't find Dr. Ron's original article. Where did he obtain his sample of Marinemix? Was it directly from the manufacturer? Did he actually test Marinemix or just use data provided to him from the manufacturer?

BTW, great info. Can't wait to see the rest. It may explain a lot of things.

Greg

 

[GSchiemer]

I found the Shimek article. The Marinemix salts were supplied DIRECTLY from the manufacturer. In addition, the manufacturer provided the data analysis for their own salt mixes! I don't know if it's been pointed out, but that would make me very suspect of any "results" or "conclusions" derived from that article.

Greg

 

[liquid]

Yep, that was pointed out a couple months back, thus Inland Reef's desire to run a thorough salt analysis study (see stickies at the top of this forum). I'm eagerly awaiting the results of both studies.

Shane

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Interesting results, Richard.

Was it exactly the same method that Ron used (ICP), or was it ICP-MS?

 

[Habib (Salifert)]

Richard:

FWIW they give for aluminum a value of 0.17 ppm and according to them (private communication) it is an inert anti-caking agent.

What they claim about the concentration of the other elements can be found in the attachment of the following post:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... ost1349214


The cobalt value as measure by you, if correct, almost sounds as if they made a "math error" in the dosage.

Thanks for sharing the results and having more details on how the samples were prepared such as dissolution and standing times and if a subsample was acidified or the whole container might be very useful.

 

[randy holmes-farley]

FWIW they give for aluminum a value of 0.17 ppm and according to them (private communication) it is an inert anti-caking agent.


Sort of like aluminum oxide? :lol:

 

[liquid]

Or some sort of aluminum silicate or sulfate. I've seen them used as well in anti-caking applications.

Shane

 

[Habib (Salifert)]

FWIW they give for aluminum a value of 0.17 ppm and according to them (private communication) it is an inert anti-caking agent.


Sort of like aluminum oxide? :lol:

I know what you are thinking. :lol:

A kind of zeolite containing besides Al also Si might be more likely. It should, however show up if Si is measured as well.

If Si does not show up the Al2O3 becomes (IMO) much more likely.


If the Al measurements by Ron were correct then the IO contained about 0.11 ppm and tanks which he tested contained on average 0.17 ppm Al.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/r ... /index.htm
and
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/r ... /index.htm

I think that if the cobalt value which Richard mentions is correct then it might explain the observations by doing only a very small water change (less than 10%).

A very quick search showed that cobalt has a very high acute and chronic toxicity to aquatic life.

Zinc and Cobalt Bioconcentration and Toxicity in Selected Algal Species
Authors: Coleman, R.D., R.L. Coleman, and E.L. Rice
Journal: Bot.Gaz. 132(2):102-109
Year: 1971

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/List_Aquir ... _Id=AQ5695