Sick Tang QT or not QT...

[djbarnes88]

I have finally purchased the fish that I have looked forward to the most. It is a Blue Hippo Tang that I brought home two days ago. We added her last because we knew about their succeptability to ick and we did not quarantine her to avoid undue stress. We have not added a fish to the tank in over two months to make sure that everything was pristine. Well, we noticed yesterday that she was starting to show some white spots but nothing serious. This morning when I woke up she was covered from mouth to tail with hundreds of extremely small white spots. They all appear to be under the skin and at this point only some are protruding. We already know that this is ick and we are just trying to figure out the best course of action for treatment. We expected her to get ick, we were just not prepared for her to get it so bad. I have 2 cleaner shrimp and a Neon Goby all going to town on her but I think that they are in over their heads.

Now for the question: I currently have a Yellow Clown Goby in my 10 gallon QT undergoing hypo. I have a recently vacated a 20H set up (Freshwater) that I can clean up to use as a hospital tank.


1. Should we move the Tang into the hospital and add the extra stress or leave her be?
2. If we move her should we also move the rest of the fish and allow the display to run fishless.? (There are six other small fish)

 

[Len]

What else is in the tank (corals, fish, etc.)? It might work to simply do a hypo treatment in the main tank if you can remove the crustaceans and other inverts.

 

[djbarnes88]

We only have a few corals in the tank. We have florida aquacultured rock and have lots of sponges, muscles, cup corals, little star fish and a bunch of other things. So I don't think we could do that.

 

[hdtran]

I vote hospital.

Larger, you can treat w/ copper (be sure to, umm, fish the tang out of the copper before reintroducing to your main tank), etc.

I hope no cysts (trophonts? tomonts? something-ont?) have left the tang to infiltrate your display tank...

 

[Anonymous]

Highly unlikely, Mr. Tran.

 

[hdtran]

Highly unlikely, Mr. Tran.

Forgive my density, but which is highly unlikely? My vote, my suggestion, or my hope about the parasites not detaching before the tang can be fished out? :?: I'm usually pretty good at deciphering posts unless they're cryptic :lol:

 

[Len]

I'd also vote for the hospital tank then. It will be a good idea to let the display be completely fish-less for 4-6 weeks. Obviously, make the transition as least stressful as possible for your tang. Unfortunately, Hippo tangs are known to be susceptible to disease.

 

[Unarce]

FWIW, I've never had a fish loss treating for ICH with garlic in my main tank. I feel that the transfering from main tank to QT and back, hypo, FW-dip, or copper treatments can be stressful. The allicin in garlic works directly on the problem. Please research its effect on ICH.

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html

 

[Anonymous]

Highly unlikely, Mr. Tran.

Forgive my density, but which is highly unlikely? My vote, my suggestion, or my hope about the parasites not detaching before the tang can be fished out? :?: I'm usually pretty good at deciphering posts unless they're cryptic :lol:

Ooops! Sorry, it's not your density, it's a problem between my brain and my fingers. (One gets going faster than the other, and before you know it, half the recipe's missing)

I think it's highly unlikely that any of the cysts have NOT broken open to release more cells into the tank.

Most folks who know me know exactly what I'm going to say. First, a QT does not have to be a proper aquarium. It can be a large trash can with heater and sponge filter. Anything that is chemically inert, can be easily cleaned, and is watertight will suffice. Second, I feel all specimens must go into QT from the get-go, and pass 30 days disease free before they get placed into the display.

All that being said, I feel that any vertebrate life you have in the display with the infected tang should be going into quarantine. It is my opinion that the wrong thing to do is to try to treat in the display, far more headaches than it's worth, and quite simply NOT as effective. Beyond that, whether you use hyposalinity (1.007-1.010), Cupramine, Formalin, or a combination of the three is up to you. I'd just go with copper from the start. It's measurable, for one thing, and seems to be more easily available. Freshwater dips to remove any cysts lying directly on the surface of the fish can have some good effect, but not as effective as with velvet.

Whichever course you take, I wish you luck.

 

[Anonymous]

First things first - always, ALWAYS quarantine. It's such an easy thing to do, and goes so far in preventing headaches. You can virtually eliminate the possibility of introducing C. irritans into you system by doing this one easy thing! Quarantine, when done properly, does NOT cause undue stess. For the life of me, I can't figure out why I'm still reading that statement after all this time. Why is it that people think a quarantine tank needs to be stark, sterile, stressful environment? Quite the opposite actually - Of ALL the fish not to quarantine, this is one of the worst to arrive at that decision.
Set up a small tank, 10 or 15 gallons will do with most fish, use live rock, a small amount of sand if you wish, a heater, small power filter to circulate the water. In other words, set up just like you would a small display tank, only you can forgo a skimmer and expensive lighting. The fish we be feel just as secure, if not MORE so than placed into a display tank with other animals. I have a 7 gallon tank that I keep running for quarantine. (If medication were needed, I would of course use a hospital tank at that point.) With C. irritans however, medication is not needed, just a two week hyposalinity treatment.
Secondly, a fish such as a hippo tang should be the FIRST fish added to almost any setup. Why? They are extremely delicate when first shipped, as they don't travel well. Many die in shipping, many more at the wholesaler, a bunch more at the retailer, and most of the rest in hobbyists' tanks. They are prone to certain maladies, as you've just discovered the hard way. The keeper needs to make every effort to make sure they have the most stress free environment possible to acclimate in. When this fish is placed in the display first, he is able to adjust, and acclimatize to his surroundings without the added stressors of territorial tank mates, competition for food, shelter, etc. Less stress means a stronger immune response.
Once he's established and strong - THEN you add your other fish which are almost always better able to deal with being dumped into such an environment.
The damage has been done, and you now have introduced the pathogen into your display.
Remove the tang, and treat with hypo immediately. Lower the salinity to 1.009 over the course of a week. Keep the fish here for at least another 10 days after that.
Watch you main display carefully, and avoid adding any other fish for at least 60 days. Feed garlic to aid the residents in fighting off the infection. NOTE: Garlic WILL NOT, or almost never cure an advanced infestation on a delicate fish such as a hippo tang. A hardy fish that had a good chance of fighting the infection on it's own? Sometimes.
Edit: I also agree with Seamaiden that, if possible - all fish should be removed to seperate tanks for treatment.


Good luck

Jim

 

[Unarce]

NOTE: Garlic WILL NOT, or almost never cure an advanced infestation on a delicate fish such as a hippo tang. A hardy fish that had a good chance of fighting the infection on it's own? Sometimes.

You're probably right. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with an advanced infestation.

 

[Anonymous]

...and may your luck hold in that regard!

 

[EmilyB]

Have a good look at the stress which is causing this. Start a garlic regime immediately, and look at areas like improving flow and oxygenation. Make sure no one is harrassing the fish.

I just threw a fish with ick into my reef tank to cure it a few months ago. And yes it is fine now.

I guess I am a proponent of the "ick will always be there, learn to take better care of your fish".

 

[Anonymous]

I'm confused as to why the fish most susceptible to ich and the last one to add to your display was the one fish you didn't quarantine. The more established the system the greater the importance of a q system.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess I am a proponent of the "ick will always be there, learn to take better care of your fish".

Emily, are cleaner shrimp always in your tank? How about sally lightfoot crabs? No? Well neither is C. irritans. It's an animal, it's introduction can be prevented quite easily, and having a system free of it is simple as well. It's not in my system. I've said this a dozen times at least by now, but one of my tanks suffered a moving disaster a few years ago. Temps dropped to the high 60's for many hours. Did my fish get ich? No, because I quarantine, and it's not in my system. C. irritans has to be able to complete it's life cycle in order to reproduce and remain in your tank, it's an obligate protozoan. There is nothing sinister or magical about it that enables it to "always be in your system" as some misinformed people contend.
I suggest you or anyone else who thinks a protozoan if this nature can attain a state of immortality or perpertual existence in a closed system read the articles that were posted by Terry B, they might help clear some things up for you. Start here-
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /mini1.htm

This way you don't have to take my word for it, and it will also reiterate the imporatance of proper quarantine procedure. :wink:

I'm confused as to why the fish most susceptible to ich and the last one to add to your display was the one fish you didn't quarantine. The more established the system the greater the importance of a q system.

Exactly!