OK...I learned my lesson...

[dtiedke]

I have been fighting a battle with hair algae since I moved, and haven't been able to figure out the source of the problem. I think I have figured it out, and I thought I would post a warning to others who are thinking of moving their DSB reef...

When I moved, I attempted to purchase new sand from my trusted LFS and was told not to bother. As my tank was only a year old at the time of the move, my LFS said that I should simply rinse the sand when I move and it would be fine.

Well.....moving a 135, with refuge, sump, tons of corals and fish was a bit more work than I expected, and I guess I wasn't careful enough in cleaning the old sand. Since setting up the new tank, I have been plagued with a nasty bloom of hair algae, and cutting back on lighting, food and such has had no effect.

I did have a minor dyno bloom, but it quickly vanished. Same for a cyano bloom as well. But this darn hair algae has got me really stumped!

So I guess the lesson learned is that if you want to keep your DSB after a move, wash the sand well, or better yet, replace it!

BTW....I have dumped 20 emerald crabs, 40 hermits (red and blue legged), 25 lettuce nudi's, 150 snails (trochus, nasarius, astrea, etc...spelling?) a foxface, sally lightfoot, and a lawnmower blennie in to fight it with no success...


I am at the point where I am thinking of yanking the 150lbs of rock, scrubbing it, and vacuming out all but an inch of the sand bed.....


Any thoughts?

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

I'd say you need to stop washing and scrubbing things. That's just weird.

It probably causes a lot of stuff (sediment, particulate matter, stuff algae can eat, etc) to be released into the water column as well. I've never heard of anyone washing their sand. Did you wash it with freshwater or what? If so, you probably added a lot of chlorine and dissolved matter (copper for one) ... and scrubbing live rock seems like a crime. WTF.

You'd probably have more success if you stopped disturbing the biology of your tank and stuff. I know the one move was necessary ... but I would not have washed the sand. I would have kept as much bio-stuff in the sand as possible, hoping it would help speed the recovery.

 

[dtiedke]

No no....I only moved the tank once.....

Washing the sand involves rinsing the sand completely in saltwater before returning to the tank (during a move). I suspect that since I didn't do that step very well, I released a TON of food into the water for the hair algae to feed from. I also suspect that had I simply replaced the sand with new, I wouldn't have the problem I have now.

I am not in favor of scrubbing the rocks, but I can't think of anything else to do to stop this. The algae has literally covered every inch of 150lbs of rock in my 6' tank, and is killing my corals at the same time. The pH swing from all that algae is also causing my corals to be severely stressed (ph is swinging from 8.0 to 8.7 during the photoperiod).

Now I have done all the things suggested....dripping kalk at night, reduced photoperiod, reduced feedings, replace bulbs, run RO/DI, water changes, run phosphate and carbon, refuge, etc.... Scrubbing the rock is no picnic, but it is my last resort....


Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Again, I wouldn't even replace the sand. You're just causing a larger cycle then, because the new sand is MORE sterile ...

And scrubbing will not help. It's a band aid. Scrubbing will not eliminate the cause of the problem.

It sounds like you've explored a lot of the causes ... what about your bulbs? Old bulbs can put out inferior spectrum and cause algae blooms, especially in PC and fluorescent.

I dunno. I am just a fan of spraying the fire extinguisher at the base of the fire and I think even if you scrubbed some algae, you'd have the same problem again later.

Have you tested for phosphates and stuff? When did you test your water last and what stuff did you test it for? We can root out the cause man, it will just take some methodology.

-me

 

[Anonymous]

dtiedke,

I am battling a nasty hair algae/cyano problem as well. I really think that my DSB is toast.

I used to scrub every other week and the stuff would come right back. I think all that scrubbing made my LR dead rock since I have not seen life on the rock in months.

I stopped scrubbing about 3 months ago and decided to try that. Things got better for about a month then now it is 4 times as worse. Hair algae and cyano all over the glass and sand.

I use RO/DI/DI, phosphate remover, carbon, 2000 GPH in a 58 gallon tank. Oversized skimmer, changed bulbs reduced feeding to almost nothing and just dose B-Ionic and Tech-M for magnesium.

Unless I am pursuaded not to I am going to remove the DSB this weekend all together.

Good luck,
_________________
great depression

 

[dtiedke]

When I moved, I replaced the bulbs and have also replaced them 3 weeks ago with 10k Ushio.....no change

I test for all the usual test (salifert)...and my levels are in line:

Ammonia - nil
Nitrite - nil
Nitrate - .25 mg/L
Phosphate - nil
Calcium - 440
Mag - 1230
Strontium - 10
ORP - 350 to 420
SG - 1.022 -refractometer
TDS on RO/DI - nil
PO4 on RO/DI - nil

Bioload is light, as is the feedings.... No additives since move, and I run 2 Magnum 350's (one with Kent Phosphate Sponge and the other with Black Diamond Carbon - changed weekly). I also run a Euro-Reef CS8-2 constantly (24/7), a Knop 1502 Calcium Reactor (8 bubbles/min).

All makup water is run through a Kalc reactor using Kent's Kalkwasser during night to keep the pH from crashing (controlled by a pH probe and controller).

The tank has about 8x turnover through the sump per hour, with an additional closed loop running at 2500g/hr. CLosed loop is on two 1" Sea-swirls.

Refugium is a 40g stocked with macro-algae and running on reverse lighting (250w Iwasaki).


I have done all the homework, and tried all the advice given....if you have any I would welcome it and give it a try...


Dave

 

[dtiedke]

dtiedke,

Unless I am pursuaded not to I am going to remove the DSB this weekend all together.

I am withyou on that! I think my DSB has to be removed from the display, but I am thinking about creating a remote DSB to ease maintenance and replacement as they reach saturation. I still believe they can benefit a captive reef, but I think I am fighting with my problem due to the release of a years worth of crude built up in my DSB when I moved....

Yuk!

Dave

 

[CiXeL]

didnt anyone learn anything from the exxon oil spill?

after the oil spill in alaska there were two types of beaches, there were beaches we scrubbed down and rinsed off with scalding hot water to clean the rocks of oil and there were beaches that we left completely alone. the beaches that we scrubbed took TWICE as long to recover than the beaches where we let nature take care of itself.

nature is very resiliant we are just very impatient. your algae problems are probably just a temporary thing that will clear up in a month or two on their own. dont be so OCD with your tank =)

 

[Unarce]

Again, you'll achieve the same nitrification/denitrification ability by utilizing a sand bed of just 1-2". Nitrification and denitrification can take place simultaneously within .08mm from eachother.

Obviously, reefs can be kept successfully with either BB, DSB, or shallow SB. What's also apparent is that occassionally a DSB can also create problems if not properly maintained.

There are also some assumptions made in regards to DSB's.
-Having a DSB means more denitrification.

"As much as 70 to 90 percent of the overall denitrification was located in the uppermost centimeter. The remainder was found at 1-3 cm depth"
-T.K. Anderson 1984 "Diurnal Variations of Nitrogen Cycling in Coastal, Marine Sediments."

-DSB's will have a more diverse array of organisms.

You can actually achieve more diversity in a 2" sand bed with a wide range of grain sizes compared to a DSB with little or no range. Simply creating multiple environments for more kinds of microfauna.

Other side benefits: More room for fish and inverts. DSB's look like crap.

 

[Anonymous]

Its hard to imagine all those herbivores aren't making a dent. The only snails that will eat algae other than film are mexican turbos and conchs.

I would just make water changes and add in a gazillion turbos...

 

[dtiedke]

your algae problems are probably just a temporary thing that will clear up in a month or two on their own. dont be so OCD with your tank =)

I guess I have a question....

How long do you consider "temporary" (going on 3 months now)...

If it shows no sign of slowing, I can assume that it will continue until everything in my tank is killed off... It is interesting to watch it establish itself at the base of a $100 coral, then quickly (within a day or two) smother and kill off the coral. Pulling it out has been fruitless as it seems to spread it further...

The only upside I can see is that it overwhelmed the Bryopsis and killed it off....but that is little help...

Dave

 

[CiXeL]

my blue legged hermits devour and bryopsis i have. i have more cyano problems that anything else but that seems to have decreased upon changing from compact flourescent to dual 175 MHs.

 

[Anonymous]

So you are saying that a hair algae outbreak for 6+ months and now a severe cyano outbreak will cure itself?

I find that hard to believe when there is nothing added to the tank ans the stuff is growing rapidly.

I thought that a few months ago that the algae would use up all the fuel source then die off but it appears that there is either a large fuel source (dead DSB/LR) or something is generating the fuel source. I dont think 2 false percs and a 6-line wrasse are making enough waste to produce a hair algae forest.
_________________
Ferrari Monza

 

[CiXeL]

have you switched food types? ive noticed some frozen foods create more suspended nutrients than others.

 

[Anonymous]

I have tried different foods with no change.
_________________
pot joint

 

[DOGMAI]

Ahh yes the hair algae. I have had this problem for the last 5 months. It all started when I switched from PC to MH. I personally think that the bulbs the setup came with are crap and it caused the outbreak. I have tried a lot also. My poor fish don’t get much to eat. Mt tank is only 2 years old and there are only 4 fish in there and some various corals and inverts. I recently started dripping kalk and since I have the cyano has showed up. What is funny about that is I am welcoming it. It is covering the hair algae and killing it. What I am seeing to be a problem is, is its not going to be around long. The cyano has already started to disappear and the hair algae is coming back. I have posted on here before about setting up a hospital tank for liverock. I was told it would do no good but I think I am going to do it anyway. I have a brand new sump with an oversized skimmer in it. I am going to put the select pieces of liverock in a bucket and connect my sump w/ skimmer to the bucket and circulate the water with my brand new Iwaki 30RLXT. Put a PC overhead to keep the coral on the rock alive and see what happens. I am getting ready to set up a new tank and don’t want to transfer the problem. (I am also buying all new sand).

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

a three month hair algae problem is not real unusual. i have been battling it for at least 5 months now (well on and off with bryopsis) and feel i am just now about to get it under control. i have known others to battle it for longer.
i currently feed once a week at tops and that is only to provide some protein for my clownfish.
i have high flow, heavy skimming, heavy carbon use and drip kalk often.
i used brand new sand and LR in this new setup.
die off has to be what is fueling it. i haven't had the coralline growth that i think i should have and i just added a temporary zebrasoma to help with an explosion of turf algae that started popping up a few weeks ago.
i quit pulling the hair off the rocks, not because i think it is harmful but because i got tired of doing it. i do still blast the heck out of it with the pump discharges and daily with my baster.

i now can see my rock in places that i haven't in months and i don't think it's coincidental that i am now gaining coralline growth with the algae's recession.
i think moving or setting up a new tank is very destructive to small animals that we rarely consider or might not even notice.
for instance a dying sponge under a rock could play hell with water chemistry as could a zooanthids, etc.
keep consistent with your method and i think you will win eventually.

 

[saltnmyeye]

i recently added some live rock to my tank and since then, i have hair algea coming back, but not bad. i too think its the dieoff.