have anyone successfull keep coral using tap water.

[Anonymous]

Several studies have been documented on treating industrial waste water using dead dried macros. And they are extremely effective in doing that. From what I understand you can even recover the toxins for recycling. But that is not bio accumulation by living macros. And the environmental engineers I have emailed have indicated that information on the living forms of macros is not readily available. Their work and expertise is with the non-living forms.

Now we're communicating Bob! We both agree that we really don't know anything for sure and someone needs to lay down some bucks if we're ever going to find out.

Glad we are communicating. And we agree that something as complex as an ecosystem we can never know for sure

I'm a strong proponent of macro algae even if you think I fight you all the time. I just don't believe it can do it all and especially copper. The anecdotal evidence I've accumulated just doesn't support it, nor do Dr. Ron's results (that used My copper laden water and My algae by the way). It did show that with Copper over twice NSW levels (from My Lagoon) Caulerpa racemosa (also from my lagoon) didn't contain much Copper. What it didn't show was if my lagoon has a harmful form of copper and what form of Copper the algae sequestered.

So, I put up a significant amount of money (significant for me anyway) to attempt to get some proof. There just weren't enough people willing to plop down some cash to get a valid study.

Guy and with respect. You wasted your money. For instance the results don't show if the copper in your lagoon came from the caulerpa racemosa or the copper in your caulerpa racemosa came from your lagoon. You need to monitor the levels over time, accounting for the copper added and looking at the copper levels in the system. In the study I did find the copper levels were maintained at various constant levels and the increase in copper in the macros was measured. Therefore you can use that data to design a copper removal system for our tanks.

So, until then I'm going to continue to recommend that people add as little Copper to their aquarium as possible. Typically Tap water is just too high in Copper although there are many exceptions.

And I also recommend maintaining as little copper as possible in our systems. Again, the important thing is the health of the livestock in our systems. Not running scared over some number that does not reflect the conditions of the water in the tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Guy and with respect. You wasted your money. For instance the results don't show if the copper in your lagoon came from the caulerpa racemosa or the copper in your caulerpa racemosa came from your lagoon.

The money could have gone a lot furtherwith more donations but it wasn't wasted.

The Caulerpa had been grown & harvested from my system for years so there's just no way the copper came from the little sprig of caulerpa I started with. I Harvested pounds of the stuff every week. It definately kept Nitrate & Phosphate at bay but I was very surprised to see my copper level so high.

 

[Tackett]

BTW, a link to a good RO/DI system.

http://www.aquaticreefsystems.com/Rever ... 4Stage.htm

It's $200. If you can't afford this, time to get out of the hobby.

I cant afford that. At least not yet. Should I quit? So are you saying that only people with a certain economical status should bother with aquariums? Im not trying to start a fight with you. But just trying to make you aware of what you just said. But i will get one eventually, sick of making trips to wal-mart every week looking like a fool with a cart of about 25 gallons of water.

 

[Anonymous]

If you have a small tank it's probably cheaper to buy it by the gallon, but an RO/DI is cheaper gallon for gallon in the long run. That's also a higher end unit. You can get perfectly suitable ones for $99. Then it costs around $30-$40 in membranes every 6 months or so. Out here in CA I spend that much in electricity bills on my tank every 2 months.
:lol: Now I sound like a salesman...

Just curious, how much is water out there? Out here it's 25-29 cents a gallon, so topping off 2 gallons a day on my tanks, and changing 5 gallons a month would cost me $15, give or take. Much cheaper in my case to go with an RO/DI.

 

[Tackett]

If you have a small tank it's probably cheaper to buy it by the gallon, but an RO/DI is cheaper gallon for gallon in the long run. That's also a higher end unit. You can get perfectly suitable ones for $99. Then it costs around $30-$40 in membranes every 6 months or so. Out here in CA I spend that much in electricity bills on my tank every 2 months.
:lol: Now I sound like a salesman...

Just curious, how much is water out there? Out here it's 25-29 cents a gallon, so topping off 2 gallons a day on my tanks, and changing 5 gallons a month would cost me $15, give or take. Much cheaper in my case to go with an RO/DI.

actually, you should be a salesman...never thought of it like that. so well, lets do the math.

I average about 2 gallons a day on top off myself, and water here is 60 cents a gallon. so that alone equals, 1.20 per day. 120x7 is 8.40 plus, 10 gallons a week for changes. errm...so thats 6.00 per week. So that equals. 14.40 per week. now, to get 200 dollars out of that...it would take 4 months. So that means in four months it would have paid for itself, maybe more once you factor in water bills, membrane changes, flush kit, and probably a pump because the water pressure here blows monkeys. But regardless, would definatley be cheaper in the long run bigger tank or not. I only have a 55 gallon. I guess it only seems like its expensive having to come up with the cash in one lump. Unless i put it on a credit card, which is something else I hadnt thought of. So point being...your right.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, it's not the first time Just kiddin...

Don't forget the hassle of lugging all that water from Wal-Mart, and the gas spent (unless you were planning on going anyway) Also, it's really nice to have a big vat of saltwater at all times in case you need to do an emergency water change for some reason.

Does your water company charge you per usage? Another hidden cost is a TDS meter, not a necessity but very helpful. Those are around 50-100.

 

[Tackett]

sigh...all this and I need a new car bumper too.

 

[Joew]

Ok fellas let's put this thread to the grave. Beaslbob is right and we're retards
_________________
PbNation

 

[Tackett]

This is WAR marine! buy hey its like my signature says...\/

<------hears taps playing softly in the distance.

 

[Joew]

HAH HAH!!!
_________________
sour diesel sour bubble seeds

 

[HClH2OFish]

Plus what level actually affects our corals and fish?
I don't know....and here's the kicker...I DON'T WANT TO FIND OUT. There are plenty of studies out there that show incredibly low levels of toxins affecting the development of marine invertebrate larvae. This alone makes me want the levels to be zero.

Amen! This is the entire point I've been trying to make!

The other point I'd like to make is that even though the macros can uptake some of the contaminants, what happens to these contaminants? They don't magically disappear. If you have a crash, or your fish eat the macros, you're simply putting it right back into the tank via a different channel.

Again, my point isn't that you can't have a successful reef tank with tap water..nor am I (or anyone here) *pushing* to sell an RO/DI (ludicrous argument Bob)
The basic element of all of us on the RO/DI side seems to be IF YOU DON'T ADD IT TO THE TANK, YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE DOING TO YOUR CORALS

I honestly don't see why this is such a hard concept to understand...[/quote]

 

[Anonymous]

Heh, I just walked through an aquatic toxicology section of a building at my university today. There were studies posted on the walls about the effects of different chemicals on aquatic life, mostly local fish. I couldn't pronounce or even remember the vast majority of these toxins. All were present in local ground water, and so presumably present to some degree in my local tap water.

Imagining that Caulerpa or some other algae would magically remove all those toxins somehow is ridiculous if you ask me. And let's not forget all the toxins that algae exude themselves to deter predators and competitors.

 

[Anonymous]

Copper is the obvious one. Results are always available for the AVERAGE local concentration and are usually TOO HIGH for reef tanks.