New tank - up and going ... help!! :)

[Playdope]

New 100 gal tank (30 gal sump) is up and running, and I just added about 140 lbs. of figi rock from someone elses established system 4 days ago, and some aragonite. I also seeded with abour 6 handfulls of live sand.

Here are my test results from the past few days:

DAY 1:

Ammonia <0.6 ppm
Nitrite < 0.15 ppm
Nitrate 0
pH 7.93 ppm

DAY 2:

Alkalinity 11.0-11.5 dKH
pH 7.98 ppm

DAY 3:

Ammonia <0.6 ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <10 ppm
pH 8.10 ppm

DAY 4:

pH 8.00 ppm



Just wondering how I'm doing? What you think is going on. I'm a little unclear what kind of a cycle I'll have since the rock I got was already from an established system, and I transported it only an hour in tank water - so I doubt there was much die-off.

Thanks,
Jon

 

[Ben1]

Well if your testing positive for ammonia then you are seeing a cycle and shouldnt add anything untill but the ammonia and nitrite reading go to o. It could be 30 days or just a few more. It can drop to 0 overnight so I would worry about.

What else do you have on the system, lighting, skimmer, ect...

 

[drywallguy29]

So "playdope" how many times have you found yourself staring at a tank with only live rock just dreaming for a few minutues..... I love this hobby.


How stocked was the tank the rock came from or was it even stocked currently. And how deep was there sand bed compared to what you have. In reality short of the die off you had from the move your reading should stabalize pretty quick. Did you bring any of the water from the established system to add to your own?

Let me pose this question to our more experienced reefers; being this rock already has some sort of established bacteria load short of the die off from the move so why another cylce?

When I moved the tank I bought I set it up immediatly with the existing bioload sand lvrock and about 50glns of the original tank water plus what I had mixed new to fill the tank. I did not see another cycle it was very stable.
Sorry to hijack your post just curious :?:

 

[Anonymous]

Well, assuming that you don't have any other dead matter in the tank and that we have all of the components of your system, it seems to me that no cycle should occur.

You supplied numbers as parts per million. My test kit reads mg/L, but your numbers seem to correspond with my kit, so I'm guessing your measurements are in mg/L [edit - I just noticed that my test kit indicates that mg/L is the same as ppm?? I guess it's on a mass/volume ratio. Hmmm]

The first day you had:

Ammonia <0.6 ppm
Nitrite < 0.15 ppm
Nitrate 0

For all intents and purposes, your nitite is at zero, as is your nitrate. Is the ammonia less than 0.6, which could mean zero, or is it at 0.5 or something like that?


For day 3, you gave the following numbers:

DAY 3:

Ammonia <0.6 ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <10 ppm

Again, for all intents and purposes, your nitrites and nitrates are still at zero.


It strikes me that there is no cycle here, but if there is one, it's one of very small magnitude.

If there is one, the only explanation I can see is that your system although stocked with bacteria laden rock, took a proportionate decline in the bacteria that reduce the ammonia and nitrite. Why? Because the filters, sand, and and other surfaces that will also host bacteria were essentially bacteria free. Whatever ammonia producing organisms came into your tank on the rock made the usual amount of ammonia, but only the rock bacteria was able to break it down, so a bit of ammonia accumulated.

From your numbers, assuming they are in mg/L, you can now add more life to your tank.

Good luck.

By the way, dry wall guy, you may have seen no change because you had the live sand in addition to the live rock. Did you also use an established filter when you set up the new tank? If so, your reducer to producer ratio probably didn't change when you set up the new tank.

 

[drywallguy29]

First I hope my reply did noy seem argumentative truly I was just posing a question. Cupric Poison thank you for an excellent explanation.

My first train of thought was it you have an established bacteria load in the live rock / hypotheticly would you need to continue to to provide the existing bacteria with the acustomed bioload? And if the existing bioload was not provided could the die off of existing bacteria cause a small cycle. I understand why my tank would not have cycled per say. I appreciate any input just for my personal knowledge. Sorry if I hijacked your post. Playdope

 

[Anonymous]

I would not add anything until the ammonia is zero. I would do a water change to help get it to zero. That ammonia could cause further die-off.

Louey

 

[Ben1]

I would not add anything until the ammonia is zero. I would do a water change to help get it to zero. That ammonia could cause further die-off.

Louey

I agree, you may want to get a new test kit to confirm your readings.

 

[Anonymous]

Dry wall guy - yes, I agree what you said makes sense. It's hard to know, really. If dying nitrogen reducers add to the production of ammonia producers, then more ammonia is produced, but that more ammonia should be broken down immediately by the over abundance of nitrogen reducers. Whew. Hard to know.

As for Ammonia, as I said earlier, we need to know if it's 0.5 or zero. If it's zero point five but there are no nitrates and no nitrites, then something isn't testing right. What that means is that the ammonia is high but is not getting reduced. That makes no sense.

In any case, I offer, as my opinion, that high ammonia at the beginning of the cycle should not be removed through water changes. You DO NOT want to remove the ammonia. You want the ammonia to stay so that it can be used as an energy source by bacteria, who will then grow to a level required to deal with your ammonia load. Then, after a few weeks, you'll have enough bacteria to immediately reduce the ammonia to nitrate as the ammonia is produced. By removing the ammonia during cycling using water changes, you are only postponing the growth of the needed bacteria. Just my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[Playdope]

Is it okay to perform water tests when the tank has a small sandstorm in it?

Jon

 

[Anonymous]

Should be fine. Why the storm?

 

[Playdope]

Hell all,

OK, well I just did some new water testing a couple of hours ago, and here are the results (I posted pictures of some of the tests so you can critique the way I read the color that showed up if neccesary):

Ammonia 0 - picture 3
Nitrite 0 - picture 2
Nitrate <10ppm (*very little) - picture 3
Alkalinity 11.0-11.5 dKH (exactly 200ppm CaCO3)
Calcium 330 ppm
pH 8.02 ppm

It's now day 5 that the tank has been running with rock and sand in it. I am a little concerned with the Calcium level. I read I should be somewhere between 380 - 450 ppm. I have Bionic that I could add, but first I wanted to ask if it was typical of saltmixes alone to make water with a calcium level so low? Could I have made a mistake doing the titration? I have the Lamotte kit, and it says to add drops until the soln turns blue - which I did... but who is to say it wasn't violet . I don't know I guess titrations always scared me because I don't know if I am interpreting the color correctly.

Many thanks for your input,
Jon

 

[Playdope]

I should also mention I am using KENT Salt.

Jon

 

[Anonymous]

Rope a Dope, I can't see any attached pics, but, based on your numbers, your tank didn't go through a cycle.
As for the calcium, 330 should be OK, unless you have a lot of calcium absorbers in your tank. Problem with salt mixes is that there is no gauranteed analysis on any of the bags. Maybe try a different brand from a different source next time.

 

[Playdope]

I'm using Kent Salt, which is supposed to be pretty good. I thought the recommended Ca++ for a reef was 380-450.

I seem to be having a "confidence issue" with these titration kits. ie. when it says add drops until the soln turns pink.......... in chem lab, they instruct students to go until we see the first hint of pink... but in this kit there is like a violet-pink, and then an obvious pink pink.. I read from the violet pink.

Should I be going until the obvious PINK color?

Would it help if I took pics?

Jon

 

[Anonymous]

Don't they sell kits that have a color chart? All of my test kits have a color block against which you compare your solution.

As for titrations, in general, as soon as you see the color, that's it.

 

[Playdope]

Thing is ... its like red at first.. then it says .. it will turn purple, then blue. It just seems like such an opinionated decision. What is blue to one person could be violet to the other. See my point? I dont know where to stop!! Rather frustrating.

Jon

 

[kadaytar]

I used to use Kent Salt Mix and i was happy with that. When i first set that tank up Ca was around 380ppm without dosing any Calcium suplement. You should be careful if you are planning to switch another brand of salt mix.

I use Hagen's Ca test kit. It is similar to yours, pink turns to violet. Mine gets completely violet at the second drop after i see the first hint of violet. Have you checked the expiry date on it? 330ppm is too low for an empty new tank even if coraline on LR consumes some part of it. What is the specific gravity reading and temperature? I also reccomend you to lift the pH up to 8.2-8.3.

 

[Playdope]

The specific grav. is at 1.0237 right now... I'm going to bring it to 1.026.

How should the pH be raised? Does BIonic raise the pH at all? The reason I ask is because I will be adding that soon anyway, and I don't want to add anything else on top of that if i dont have to.

Thanks,
Jon

 

[kadaytar]

I havent used BIonic before. I use Seachem
pH Buffer when i have a pH problem it brings pH back to 8.3. But regular use of Seachem Reef Builder keeps me away from pH problems. Also you should watch the temp when you adjust the salinty because SG changes according the temperature while salinty stays stable so you may get a wrong salinty level while you are bringing SG to 1.026. 1.024 ppm SG at 24C gives a salinty level of 35ppt.

 

[Ben1]

B-Ionic is a two part system, one adds calcium which with out the buffer would drop your ph. With the buffer it stabalizes the pH , if you just add the buffer or more buffer then Ca then the pH should have a tendency to rise.