Ich on Blenny

[Anonymous]

I have a Red lipped blenny in QT, I just got him about 5 days ago. Well, I had a bunch of LR rubble in the tank for him to hide in, but I couldn't see him. So I take most of it out, and put it in my sump (the display tank) and saw that he had a mild case of ich. Is the LR that I took out of his QT and placed in my sump going to infect the fish in that tank? I didn't see he had it until I put the LR in the tank. Thanx.

 

[kadaytar]

Hey Jen, you dont need to wory about that because the stuff causing ich allways exists in the water. Actualy it should be on the fishies all the time for their health but fish has to produce a mucus layer to prevent that stuff to reach its skin. Whenever fish weakens or gets stressed out it can not produce enough mucus and at that point ich starts to become a problem. No matter what we do we can not get rid of it completely.

 

[Kevin1000]

Kadaytar - your comments are incorrect. Ich is a parasite and does not exist in every tank. Heres a link you should read.

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/aqu ... ish_1.html

Jen

There is a chance that the live rock you transferred into the sump will contain some tomonts - tomonts will hatch ich within 3-28 days and I would remove that rock from your sump asap.

Heres a good link discussing ich treatment

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevo ... neich.html

If you leave your show tank w/o fish for 5 weeks any ich that has been transferred to that tank will die off.

 

[Anonymous]

Kevin is right. The previous informatin about ICH is 100% wrong.

ICH is caused by a one celled protist, that, if removed from your tank or left to die in your tank, will never return unless you reintroduce it.

The cells may have been on the rubble, they may have then been transferred to your main tank. Since you have fish in your main tank, you have several options.

Some of them are . . .

Pull all fish and medicate in QT. Leave display empty for 5 weeks.

Medicate blenny, inspect main tank fish for infection. If after 4-5 weeks there are no signs of infection in main tank (scratching, etc.), return blenny to main tank.

Keep in mind that it is extremely unlikely that a "mild case" of ICH will go away. More likely, the ICH parasite will simply mulitply by 200 each genreation and keep reinfecting the blenny until the blenny is white with infection. I'd recommend using coppersafe in the QT tank, if copper is OK for a blenny. Within 8 days or so the QT tank will be free of ICH. [that is, the fish and water will be ich free. Some cysts may still be in the rocks, but the protists will die when they hatch]

Good luck

 

[kadaytar]

I am sory if i made an incorrect satatement. But in many case pH and temp flactuations or bad water parameters cause ich even if you dont add a new fish into the tank. If that parasite cant live without a host fish or doesnt exist in the tank how do the fishies get that parasite?

 

[Anonymous]

Kadaytar - pH and water changes don't cause ICH. ICH is caused by a cellular parasite that can only live off of fish. If you don't have any ICH parasites in your tank, then your fish can't get ICH.

Kind of like, if you went and lived on Mars by yourself, you would never get an infectious disease - because there would be nobody to give it to you.

 

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that it is extremely unlikely that a "mild case" of ICH will go away.
Good luck

Huh. I have had two ich infections in my tanks since I began keeping saltwater. Once a newly introduced hippo tang became covered with it, the other, I stupidly thought I could get away with placing a few pieces of freshly shipped rock in my tank because the water volume was so large and it messed with my water quality.

Both times it went away on it's own.

 

[Anonymous]

Laura, are you sure it was ICH?
If it was, you were extremely lucky.

 

[Anonymous]

Laura, are you sure it was ICH?
If it was, you were extremely lucky.

Yeah, I know it was ich.

Nah, not lucky. I just have fat healthy fish with good immune systems. Just because you are exposed to a pathogen does not mean you will be afflicted.

 

[kadaytar]

Cupric Poison,
I am not telling that pH and water changes cause ich. Inappropriate conditions cause the fish get stressed out and weaken. Also i am telling that in many of the tanks that damn parasite exists. When the fish is weak parasite shows itself. Maybe there are some different types. Even in the nature there are many Hippo tangs having ich. There are many hobyists solving ich problem through the food mixed with garlic without using any medication at the begining stage of ich. Does garlic kill ich parasite? I have a friend keeping a hippo tang for over 2 years. At the begining his tank was small and nitrates were high. That poor hippo had allways ich but none of the other fishies had ich. He upgraded his tank into a 100G put a sump , got a better PS and started garlic supported feeding. Ich was gone for nearly 8 months. But unfortunately when the sumer came he couldnt keep the temp stable and ich started again. He bought a chiller solved the temp problem and no more ich again. During this period he didnt introduce anything new into his tank. So what the heck is this? Where the hell was that parasite for nearly 8 months if it wasnt on the fish or in the system? Why didnt it appear? Why didnt the other fishies get ich? What makes hipo tangs ich magnet and howcome they get ich when there isnt any newly added fish in case that the parameters go down and flactuations start ? Is ich some kind of ghost reencarnate on a different fish body? I am telling again maybe there are some different types of ich some can be got rid of easily , some can't.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with you kadaytar, I have seen several instances where a tank has had no new additions for many months, but a stressful event (such as the failure of a heater) triggered an outbreak of ich. So the parasite must have been in the tank the whole time, but not at a level to infect the fish until something happened to them them that make them vulnerable. I know it is a parasite that completes part of it's life cycle on the fish, but I have seen it pop up out of nowhere enough times to believe that it can be present and the fish don't necessarily become infected.

 

[Anonymous]

I always thought that ich has a dormant stage?

 

[kadaytar]

I just asked a friend who was a very knowledgable and experienced hobyist. Cryptocaryon irritans is like fresh water parasite Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It doesnt need a stressfull event. You need to use very strong medication to kill it but the sad part is that medication kills everything else including fish before killing the parasite. The medicines against this parasite are aimed to prevent reproduction. If it is late there is nothing to do with it even with medication. But this parasite is an extraordinary one chance is something like one in million in all ich cases. It is not the ich case what many of us live. I am sory Jen for missleading you if you are that lucky person. Surething you dont need to worry that much if your red lipped doesnt have that rare Cryptocaryon irritans.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I disagree with both of you. Ich doesn't have a dormant stage and it doesn't "pop up" due to stress. I'll site a couple of web sites at the end of this that make it clear that ICH can't survive more than about a month without a fish host. Please feel free to post a reputable site that indicates that saltwater ICH lies dormant in a tank for more than about a month without a fish host. I'd love to read it.

As for your observations Laura, almost certainly ICH was in the tanks that you saw for months with no new additions. It was living in the fish! The fish's immunce system held the ICH down for months, so that the infection was not severe or visible, until a stressful event hit, then WHAM, they go nuts. But if the tank had been properly isolated or treated, the reinfection would not have occurred. In any event, believe what you want, but at least read the articles, below, especially the section called "myths". Anyway, if your advice to folks with ICH is to let the fish tough it out, I have to respectfully disagree with that approach. It's probably extremely uncomfortable or painful for the fish, even if they live.

By the way, ICH is rare among wild saltwater fishes. When you trap the fish in a tank, however, it is not rare.

Good luck to all of you.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevo ... neich.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Kevin, and cupric, thank you both very much with the advice! I haven't had a chance to take the LR out of the refuge, and I'm not afraid to leave the tank sans fish for a month+ to get rid of it. The blenny doesn't have it very bad, but I'll watch all of them very closely for now. Great articles! I will keep busy tomorrow reading the rest of them. It's bed time for me. Jen

 

[Anonymous]

As for your observations Laura, almost certainly ICH was in the tanks that you saw for months with no new additions. It was living in the fish! The fish's immunce system held the ICH down for months, so that the infection was not severe or visible, until a stressful event hit, then WHAM, they go nuts. But if the tank had been properly isolated or treated, the reinfection would not have occurred.

But it didn't go nuts, I had a nitrite spike and my tangs each had a few spots of it, which went away as soon as the water quality leveled out. It was quite mild actually. Oh, and that was a few years ago and it has not yet returned.

In any event, believe what you want, but at least read the articles, below, especially the section called "myths".

I have read all those already thanks.

Anyway, if your advice to folks with ICH is to let the fish tough it out, I have to respectfully disagree with that approach. It's probably extremely uncomfortable or painful for the fish, even if they live.

Good luck to all of you.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevo ... neich.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm

My advice is NOT to let fish "tough it out". I am not advocating dumping un-quarentined fish in a tank either. You just said that it was extremely unlikely for a mild case of ich to go away, and I have to disagree, because I have seen it with my own eyes on several occasions, some in my tanks, some relatives or friends tanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair enough Laura.
Sorry if I was abrasive - I didn't mean to be.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair enough Laura.
Sorry if I was abrasive - I didn't mean to be.

It's all good! The ich topic is a contentious issue! In retrospect I do see how it could look like I was like "Ich? Pfft, no big deal." Which wasn't what I intended.

 

[kadaytar]

Hey Cupric poison, thanks for the articles those were nice. I hate to argue since it doesnt gives us anything but i love to discuss since it takes us to good coclusions. So dont get me wrong i want to continue this discussion because there is a dilemma here. As i told before there are too many hobbyists fighting with ich without adding any new fishies into their systems. I know some hobyists in person having ich problem all of a sudden who religiously quarantin the new fish. In many ich cases -when there is no newly added fish- the starter is stressful events such as flactuations or high nitrates etc. Contrary to the info in those articles hobyists can get over the problem without using any chemicals. They dont even seperate the fishies from the main tank.All they do is to correct the water parameters, stop the flactuations, feeding the fish with food enhancing the immune system etc. Thats what we live for many times. For me this is a big dilemma because these are not ghost stories these are the real experiences we live.

You are telling that this guy doesnt have a dormant stage according to the articles issued on reputable sites but this doesnt match with the ich cases we live. Here is another info little bit different what those articles say.

"Cryptocaryon irritans is a parasite with a direct life cycle, i.e. requiring no intermediate host like an invertebrate to complete its life cycle. The time per generation is temperature dependent, ranging from a few days for tropical to a week or more. If one considers the possibility of "resting stages", marine ich can wait out weeks to months before seeking out fish hosts."

" In actual fact cysts of Cryptocaryon can stay viable for a few to several months, hence ultraviolet sterilization, use of biological cleaners, allowing systems to go fallow... only decreases the number and virulence of these parasites. Once in a system, the system itself is infested and the only practical means of control becomes providing an optimized and stable environment."

link to the whole article:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm

As far as i can understand having an ich free system is something like a miracle. Because this parasite comes from the wild and it can be attached to many different things. Many of us use live rock coming from the oceans or we make frag exchanges. It doesnt have a visable sign when it is in resting stage so how can we know that if the parasite is in a resting stage? Yes some of us quarantine new fish but usualy we dont quarantine the corals attached LR. But unforyunately this guy can be attached to LR as well.

There is an important thing that i have learnt from this hoby. "I can never say that i am %100 right"
Every day i learn another thing and i am not telling that the info those articles is wrong but what i have seen during the last 5 years of mine in this hobby many of the ich cases are caused by inaproppriate conditions and if the ich case isnt in an advanced stage can be beaten by some corrections without pouring down a bucket of bleach in to the tank to kill this nusiance parasite.

 

[LCGoldman]

I've used Exodin in the past to treat ich in a reef tank with success. It's not readily available in the US but I did find one online store that sold it. It's also not cheap. But, it worked.