Ethics of keeping the blue ring octopus.

[Tackett]

Here is the deal. Of the two subjects in this conversation (BRO's and humans) I have more symapthy, and am more worried, for the Octo. The fact that it is deadly doesnt really mean crap to me due to the much discussed fact that there are very few if zero cases of "death by BRO", or "near death by BRO." The fact of the matter here people is that we are dealing with a very delicate creature and should NOT be sold to Joe Schmoe because its "cool lookin." If we suggest liscensing ANYTHING we should blanket EVERY delicate critter so that only proficient people should be able to care for them, I absolutley want to vomit at the idea of killing a critter for a buck, which is essentially what you are doing when you sell delicate critters to Joe Schmoe. An adequate show of proficiency for caring for delicate creatures should be displayed and a liscense applied for before being able to purchase (from authorized breeders and collectors only) a delicate species.

I think the main argument here should be to somehow disempower people from making money off of a creatures slow, painful demise at the hands of someone who doesnt know what the hell they are doing. Because god knows there are fish that I dont need to be fooling with, and as a responsible aquarist with, I hope, a small measure of knowledge, I avoid them. Though I cannot vouch for my younger years. When a person is 18 years old and able to get their hands on stingrays, octopuses (or octopii if you wish), sea apples, and plenty of other delicate critters, there is a problem with the system.

 

[HClH2OFish]

I heartily agree Tackett....

But we do come to a point where we would have to determine where to draw the line....Mandarins? Anemones? Seahorses?

All of the above species aren't the 'easiest' to care for, by most standards.
I'm afraid legislation would simply compound the issue, and wouldn't do too much with keeping delicate creatures away from those that shouldn't have them. How often is the LFS policed anyway?

There is one LFS here in Phoenix that I've seen with remora, jellyfish (in a square tank with hi flow..it died), even juvenile barracuda!!

Who in their right mind would buy a barracuda?? I can assure you there are probably less than 5 or 6 tanks here in Phoenix large enough to house a 'cuda properly.

I think the issue is more at the LFS level...people are always going to want to buy that 'cool' thing, no matter if it's dangerous, delicate, or whatever. If the LFS is providing these, therein lies the fault...and legislation will do little to stem that IMHO.

 

[Tackett]

I heartily agree Tackett....

But we do come to a point where we would have to determine where to draw the line....Mandarins? Anemones? Seahorses?

All of the above species aren't the 'easiest' to care for, by most standards.
I'm afraid legislation would simply compound the issue, and wouldn't do too much with keeping delicate creatures away from those that shouldn't have them. How often is the LFS policed anyway?

There is one LFS here in Phoenix that I've seen with remora, jellyfish (in a square tank with hi flow..it died), even juvenile barracuda!!

Who in their right mind would buy a barracuda?? I can assure you there are probably less than 5 or 6 tanks here in Phoenix large enough to house a 'cuda properly.

I think the issue is more at the LFS level...people are always going to want to buy that 'cool' thing, no matter if it's dangerous, delicate, or whatever. If the LFS is providing these, therein lies the fault...and legislation will do little to stem that IMHO.

Yep, legislation would do nothing, and drawing the line and policing something like this would be impossible. I guess the only thing we can all do is boycott the jerkwads that actually sell these types of animals. The fault definatley lies with the LFS. This is the direction that "ethics of keeping the blue ring octopus" takes. This heading should be entitled "Ethics of selling the blue ring octopus." hehe.

And I couldnt imagine owning a barracuda.

 

[Oceans Ferevh]

The fact of the matter here people is that we are dealing with a very delicate creature and should NOT be sold to Joe Schmoe because its "cool lookin."

...I cannot vouch for my younger years. When a person is 18 years old and able to get their hands on stingrays, octopuses (or octopii if you wish), sea apples, and plenty of other delicate critters, there is a problem with the system.

I guess we're all guilty of being "Joe Schmoe" then Huh Tackett.

It could all be solved in one word, if taken seriously...EDUCATION. But, that's not likely to happen. We all want what's best for the people, animals, and our rights, but my favorite quote sums it up best: "you can wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which one fills up first." You can't please everyone or do what is right for everyone. It's just not possible.

 

[Tackett]

The fact of the matter here people is that we are dealing with a very delicate creature and should NOT be sold to Joe Schmoe because its "cool lookin."

...I cannot vouch for my younger years. When a person is 18 years old and able to get their hands on stingrays, octopuses (or octopii if you wish), sea apples, and plenty of other delicate critters, there is a problem with the system.

I guess we're all guilty of being "Joe Schmoe" then Huh Tackett.

It could all be solved in one word, if taken seriously...EDUCATION. But, that's not likely to happen. We all want what's best for the people, animals, and our rights, but my favorite quote sums it up best: "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first." You can't please everyone or do what is right for everyone. It's just not possible.

Yes we are all guilty of being joe schmoe, and education is the key. That saying sums it all up though, and strangely, ive never heard it before. So I guess in a word....amen.

 

[Rikko]

The fault lies at the LFS level, but not the responsibility, inclination, or wisdom. We can point fingers at LFSs all we want but that's like blaming cats for fleas. Sure, they have fleas, but there's so many out there you're never going to be able to make an impact.
I think it needs to move up a level. Importers are much smaller in number and in general know more than the average LFS owner (at least from the many I've dealt with or heard from/about online, and I assume that's because they started at LFS level and worked their way up with passion). If the people bringing animals in can say "no, you can't have it", then there's a wall that we might be able to raise and maintain.

Then again, we're all still human. Assume the worst and maybe be pleasantly surprised sometimes..