Calcium and Iodine Topups

[narny]

Hi,

I've been having a few calcium problems, here's the tank spec first :

Juwel Rio 180
Eheim 2224 Filtration
Loads of live rock
Deltec MCE600 Skimmer (Love this baby)
4 * 1000 litre per hour powerheads with rotating nozzle's (Hydor flo)
Ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm
PH = 8.2
Calcium = At the moment 400 ppm
(All using hagen / nutrafin test kits)
Water = Instant Ocean / My own RO unit

Tank Inhabitants :

2 * Cleaner shrimp
2 * Fire Shrimp
2 * Peppermint shrimp
1 * Baby regal tang
1 * Small Yellow tailed purple tang
2 * Clown fish
2 * Firefish
1 * Ritteri Anemone

Corals / Clams :

Pink brain (large 5 inch across)
Green Brain (Hard coral)
Open Brain (Soft and blows up and deflates)
1 * Derasa clam
1 * Maxima clam
Toadstool (Huge)
And a few softies

My problem is as follows :

I've been running this tank fine for about a year now, and never had to pay much attention to calcium or iodine, mainly as my clams and brains are new additions (past 3 months or so). I tested the calcium about 2 days ago as my inflatable brain went way down and scared the hell out of me. The calcium was at 350 ppm, which i understand is way too low. I should be aiming for 400-450 acording to the manual that came with the test kit. I'm using kent liquid calcium and Kent Tech-I for topups, one capfull of each (as i understand iodine has somthing to do with helping the calcium be usefull). And now have my calcium level at bare minimum 400, things have started to improve, my brain now looks cool again.

I'm mainly after info on how people top up their calcium levels, i've seen a lot about kalkwasser but am frightened to use it as i've read you can overdose the tank. I also would be making up and adding my own kalk as i have no sump and no Kalc stirrer or reactor. I've also seen kent turbo calcium (what the heck is this).

Secondly, do i need to add Tech-i as well as calcium every time? I have never seen an iodine test kit.

Are there any better products on the UK market than the kent one's i currently use? How do you lot do it?

Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

I have run calcium at less than 350 with no problems.

Iodine isn't necessary or helpful!....Its a poison!

 

[danmhippo]

Iodine is controversial, and unless you got an "accurate" and "easy to read and understand" test kit to tell you if your are overdosing, otherwise, I would suggest NOT dosing iodine.

As above mentioned, 350 really is not too bad. I've had worse....... Kalk reactor/stirrer is a good thing to have, if you got the dough. 350ppm can be fixed pretty quick by a few water changes, or one of those 2 part additives. But personally, I would recommend you try out with a small bottle of kalkwasser and get the hang of using the white powder.

 

[narny]

I was kind of looking for some advice on HOW to use kalk. Do i need the drip method? Can i just add it direct from a pipette???

 

[Bucktronix]

i just mix my kalk strait into my ro bucket which is on a float switch in the sump. i am switching over to kalk reactor for the simple reason i am lazy and the reactor is convient. basically the reactor is a tower that you dump a pile of kalk into, it either has a magnetic stir rod or a powerhead hooked to the side of it. it's on a timer so 5 or 6 times a days the kalk gets stirred up and stays liquid. the ro bucket is plumbed strait into your reactor to feed it water and the reactor is then plumped strait into your float switch in your sump. when you get evaporation bingo you get top off water premixed with kalk. if your calcium levels are still to low increase your evaporation. it's pretty simple. you should be able to get a decent kalk reactor for around 200 bucks.

 

[Anonymous]

I was kind of looking for some advice on HOW to use kalk. Do i need the drip method? Can i just add it direct from a pipette???

Definitely drip or reactor. It will cause a pH swing if you dose it by hand.

 

[Mihai]

Man, I recommed the homemade two part additive presented a few months ago in the Advanced Aquarist. It's very easy, effective, and if homemade, cheap.

Keep in mind that you need to add both calcium and alkalinity at the same time. A calcium of 350 is not too bad, but if the alkalinity decreased at the same pace you may have very low alkalinity and that would be bad (much worse than the calcium problem).

I advise you to check your alkalinity and correct (slowly) if off balance. At the same time fix the Ca.

M.

 

[narny]

Alkalinity is again, somthing i don't check for. Bad me !!. I've never seen an alkalinity testkit or additive. The only way i know to check alkalinity is through my GH / KH test kit. Obviously higher KH means higher alkalinity and a higher PH (As far as i know). I use that kit on my discus tanks to check my water is soft and acidic. Is this what you meant?

I also use Kents Superbuffer DKH, will this be keeping check on my Alk level???

Please elabourate further, i'm relatively new to marine and reef, and the calcium, mahnesium, alkalinity, iodine thing is confusing me to high heaven. I have a rio 180 as stated above and no sumps, overflows or weirs, just tank and external filter.

I've been told in another forum that iodine can be poisonous, so why does the bottle say to add it weekly? Sheesh.

There's so many potions and different opinions out there about what and how to add it my head is spinning.

At the moment i check these :

PH
Salinity
Calcium levels
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

I change 25 litres of water every two weeks using instant ocean, and add kent essentials when i change. Thats it.

So my question now is what else should i be checking, and what and how often should i be adding to the tank above and beyond saltwater.

I do not have room for a sump , so i'm assuming i can't have a calc reactor. I'm confused, educate me !!!!!

 

[Mihai]

Alkalinity is again, somthing i don't check for. Bad me !!. I've never seen an alkalinity testkit or additive. The only way i know to check alkalinity is through my GH / KH test kit. Obviously higher KH means higher alkalinity and a higher PH (As far as i know). I use that kit on my discus tanks to check my water is soft and acidic. Is this what you meant?

I also use Kents Superbuffer DKH, will this be keeping check on my Alk level???

That's good, assuming you keep it at the right level. The idea is to test, then fix if need fixing. There is no way to know how much Alk your creatures use in calcification, so you need to measure it to figure out if you need more buffer or not.

Please elabourate further, i'm relatively new to marine and reef, and the calcium, mahnesium, alkalinity, iodine thing is confusing me to high heaven. I have a rio 180 as stated above and no sumps, overflows or weirs, just tank and external filter.

The only bad thing in the setup is the rio - it's a timebomb. Rios are famous for poor reliability. In addition, when they go, they often
spill oil and kill the entire tank.

I've been told in another forum that iodine can be poisonous, so why does the bottle say to add it weekly? Sheesh.

It's only poisonous if it's too much. Unfortunately, unlike the case of Alk, there is *no* reliable iodine test (the things are messy, as iodine is present in sea water in three forms, and it keeps changing from one to the other. The tests can only measure two of them, so, in the end you still don't know how much you have. I seldom add some iodine to my tank and I saw Xenia responding well to it (some may see this as a bad thing though . I guess that in this case, I was lacking iodine, so adding it was good. If you have too much, it can be a poison, that's why people are against it.

There's so many potions and different opinions out there about what and how to add it my head is spinning.

At the moment i check these :

PH
Salinity
Calcium levels
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

I'd say that rather than monitoring the last three you should monitor Alk.
Nitrate are good to check too, but Alk is, arguably, more important to check.

I change 25 litres of water every two weeks using instant ocean, and add kent essentials when i change. Thats it.

Don't add stuff after water change: the new water has all it needs (especially if you use IO - an excellent salt).

So my question now is what else should i be checking, and what and how often should i be adding to the tank above and beyond saltwater.

I do not have room for a sump , so i'm assuming i can't have a calc reactor. I'm confused, educate me !!!!!

You never said how big the tank is. If you change more than 5-10% every two weeks you shouldn't need any supplements, as they come from the water changes (except perhaps for calcium and Alk as they get depleted badly in tanks with lots of SPS).

Regarding the spinning head - yeah, I know, been there, done that. It's amazing how much you can learn in a year though. I strongly recommend to read a good book on marine aquaria, say Bob Fenner's book, or John Tullock (spelling?). If you're set on corals read Calfo or Borneman...

For any specific problems, this board rocks!

M.

 

[narny]

As far as the rio goes, there's no timebomb, i've ripped out the juwel filter and i use and external eheim 2224 and lots of live rock. The Juwel powerhead (this as i understand it is the oil slick) has also been removed and replaced with 4 powerheads (dont remember make but they were good one's designed for salt water and were'nt cheap jobs).

The rio 180 as stated hold 180 litres of water :lol: you must have missed that. I plan on upping my water changes to make sure i'm doing 25% every two weeks. I was thinking of changing my instant ocean salt to reef crystals as i've heard there is extra calcium and other additives that are good for reef tanks, what do you think?

That's good, assuming you keep it at the right level. The idea is to test, then fix if need fixing. There is no way to know how much Alk your creatures use in calcification, so you need to measure it to figure out if you need more buffer or not.

When you say "That's good" what were you refering to?? The Kent superbuffer??? Also when you say the idea is to test, are you refering to my GH / KH test kit i mentioned, or do i need a specific alkalinity test kit i have'nt got?????

And finally thanks, you've been a great help.

Your right about the spinning head though it's madness, i've been a discus keeper for about 3 years and i thought there was a lot to it to get to breeding standard, but i regard all that as easy now, second nature even.
There's no magic potions and no added worries above and beyond soft acidic water. It's all good stuff though !

 

[Mihai]

As far as the rio goes, there's no timebomb, i've ripped out the juwel filter and i use and external eheim 2224 and lots of live rock. The Juwel powerhead (this as i understand it is the oil slick) has also been removed and replaced with 4 powerheads (dont remember make but they were good one's designed for salt water and were'nt cheap jobs).

Complete misunderstanding here. Sorry, my bad. When I saw "Rio" I assumed you use a Rio powerhead (manufactured by Taam) - those powerheads are the timebombs I'm mentioning. Never heard of Rio as a tank - the most popular in US are AllGlass and Oceanic. So, no problems with the "Rio".

The rio 180 as stated hold 180 litres of water :lol: you must have missed that. I plan on upping my water changes to make sure i'm doing 25% every two weeks.

25% every two weeks is very good if you can keep it up financially and timewise. It's better if you do 12.5% weekly though, 25% water change for saltwater can be a bit upsetting on the inhabitants. It's likely that this level of water change will suffice in maintaining all your parameters in check unless you will want to add lots of SPS corals. In your system the only things that eat Ca are the clam and the LPS; I'm pretty sure they don't grow *that* fast to overwhelm a 25% water change every two weeks. The apparent drop in Ca levels may be a test fault... did you double check the measurement? You may be able to take it to a LFS to have it tested (often for free) for Ca, with a different test than yours.

I was thinking of changing my instant ocean salt to reef crystals as i've heard there is extra calcium and other additives that are good for reef tanks, what do you think?

Nope, IO is an excellent salt - most reefers that I know use it with great success. It has all the essential Ca, Alk and other additives you need. Reef Crystals if I'm not mistaken is made by the same manufacturer as IO. I also heard good things about it, but it has to stand the test of time (too new for my taste - I'll let others try it out ).

That's good, assuming you keep it at the right level. The idea is to test, then fix if need fixing. There is no way to know how much Alk your creatures use in calcification, so you need to measure it to figure out if you need more buffer or not.

When you say "That's good" what were you refering to?? The Kent superbuffer??? Also when you say the idea is to test, are you refering to my GH / KH test kit i mentioned, or do i need a specific alkalinity test kit i have'nt got?????

I meant it's good to use Kent superbuffer. I assume it provides Alk, and thus is a good way to fix you Alk if it drops. However, most of the time Alk and Ca are depleted at the same time: when things grow in the tank (corals, etc.) they use equal quantities of Ca and Alk to build their skeletons so usually you have to replace them both. Usually this can be done with Kalkwasser, or, IMO, better with a balanced additive (e.g., B-Ionic, or, IMO, better yet the homemade recipe that appeared in Advanced Aquarist last year).

However, once again, if you keep up with the water changes you will not need any additives (neither Ca nor Alk), as they will be constantly replenished by water changes.

Besides Ca and Alk I do not recommend you add any snake oil into your tank - water changes insure that everything will be replenished. Even Ca and Alk - do not add them unless you're sure they're too low.

And finally thanks, you've been a great help.

Well, I got lots and lots of help from this board (and still do): my turn to help others.

Your right about the spinning head though it's madness, i've been a discus keeper for about 3 years and i thought there was a lot to it to get to breeding standard, but i regard all that as easy now, second nature even.
There's no magic potions and no added worries above and beyond soft acidic water. It's all good stuff though !

I agree, I also have a planted tank and it's a piece of cake by comparison with the saltwater tank. They are so different, and yet so beautiful!

All the best,
Mihai
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