My fish keep dying...HELP!!!

[brewerbob]

Some background info....

I've been loosing new fish. I thought it might have been the Damsels so I got rid ofthem (sold back to the store). Still lost a long nose hawk. Thought it might have been the Maroon Clown. Got rid of him. Lost a Flying Gurnard. Thought it might have been the Yellow or Blue tangs. I still have them and a Spiny Box Puffer.

I just moved to Baltimore and torn the whole tank down and moved it. In the process I lost (literally couldn't find) the 6 line wrasse. He was in there before I started moving rock. He wasn't when the rock was out and the water down. I put all of the rock in water and moved it that way. He never showed up.

I just bought a Mandarin dragonet a couple of days ago and he made it thru the first two days just fine. The puffer went for him while I was floating him in the bag but only once. I never saw anyone go after the Mandarin while he was swimming around. A few time he wasright next to the tangs and they could have easily harassed him but didn't.

This evening the Mandarin is deaad and chewed up. I don't know if the crabs did most of the damage after he was dead or if it was a result of whoever got him.

What or who is killing my fish? Hermits, the two tangs and the puffer are the only critters in the tank. There is a leather coral, mushrooms, polyps, one tiny anemone, and the green plate croal (don't knowthe name). I don't think I have any bad critters. The move dropped the water temp to about 48* which wiped out the bristle worms so anythign that can't handle cold should have been wiped out and no chance to come back or be re-introduced.

I'm out of ideas and tired of killing fish. Please help.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey BrewerBob, I think it would be helpful to know the size of the tank and the water perams.

The mandarin prolly died before the crabs got to him. Most fish will leave a mandarin alone as they are slightly toxic or have a bad taste.

Does the puffer nip at your corals?

Where did you find a Gunard in SC? They need a very big tank don't they? I thought they were a hard fish to keep.
Andy

 

[Anonymous]

How big is your tank? What is your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels?

 

[brewerbob]

Temp: 80 ( I prefer around 76, I'll check again inthe morning and see if it's teh lights)
pH 8.2
SG: 1.025 (elevated temp is affecting)
Ammonia: 0 (one of the chemicals precipitated, they are old)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20 (added about 5 gallons of "tap" water yesterday, line is filtered but don't know how well)

65 gallons

The Flying Gurnard is a small fish like a blennie. I got him at Fins in Columbia. He quarrintees the fsh for 4 weeks before selling them. Once they are eating they are supposed to be easy to keep. I wouldn't know as mine was dead the next morning. As far as I know "Puffy" leaves everything and everyone alone. Not sure what he does at night when I'm not looking.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey BrewerBob,
Your perams seem fine. Nitrates should be a little lower less than 10, but this should not be a problem.

I'm inclined to say you have just had a run of bad luck. The six line was prolly hiding in the rock somewhere, the flying Gunard, which grow to about 12" with very wide pect fins was prolly doomed from the start as was the Mandarin. These fish are very hard to feed. I would say to keep an eye on the water quality and do a little research on the fish you want. Good luck.
Andy

 

[Anonymous]

Not to be the tang police, but 2 tangs in a 65 is too much, imo. Some would say any tang in a 65 is too much.

I'm with Andy...I think your water params are okay. Take a time out from getting any more fish and let your tank settle for a while.

 

[brewerbob]

You sure we are talking about the same fish?

http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishf ... orient.htm

My guy was under 2". Anyway, he and the Mandarin didn't die of starvation. Not in 2 days. The Mandarin must not have tasted good. Even teh hermits seemed to stay away. He was missing some skin but was mostly intact. He was a plump little guy. Not scawny and half starved.

 

[Anonymous]

What does your acclimation process look like?

 

[Anonymous]

You sure we are talking about the same fish?

http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishf ... orient.htm

My guy was under 2". Anyway, he and the Mandarin didn't die of starvation. Not in 2 days. The Mandarin must not have tasted good. Even teh hermits seemed to stay away. He was missing some skin but was mostly intact. He was a plump little guy. Not scawny and half starved.

Yes that a FG, they grow quite large. As juvis they do not have the
"wings" of an adult. I believe they are also loose schoolers. They need large open areas to move around. They were prolly starving since they were brought to the wholeseller. Were their sides shrunken in? Just trying to help.

Any other info might help. How huch live rock is in the tank? Do you have a sand bed? If so how deep? Circulation and filtration?
Andy

 

[danmhippo]

Your mandarin could be died of starvation, sixline could be burried in the sand during the move. It's not uncommon they dig shallow into the sand during stress, depending on how much more sand/rock was laid on top of him during and after the move, I don't think it has a chance. During moving, I always dig and sift through the sand to look for wrasse, they were never hidden in the LR IME.

I would suggest you hold your horse and let everything settle down in the tank before you make any more new purchases. Wait out a couple more weeks to make sure there are no more mysterious deaths.

 

[brewerbob]

Float for about half an hour. Dump a cup of water in the bag. Wait another half hour. Repeat. I do this 3 or 4 times depending on what else I'm into at the time. After this, scoop the fish out and put him directly in the tank. The water goes down the drain not back into the tank.

Since it is usually on the way home from work when I have a critter, it's a couple of hours before lights out. That gives me a chance to see if anyone is chasing him furing the "day". After lights out there are too many dark holes and what not to see well and the new critter is probably hiding anyway.

 

[Tackett]

going out on a limb here, but...could it possibly be a mantis? Ive seen alot of fish disapearing acts due to that.

 

[brewerbob]

That's what the fish store thought. That's what others are suggesting. That's what I was thinking.

How would I know? Wouldn't the move and cold water have kill it? It took out the bristle worms but not the hermits. I'm guessing shrimp and the mantis is somewhere in between in hardyness.

 

[Anonymous]

With respect, Bob, mantis shrimp seem to often get the blame when an explanation for fish dying isn't readily obvious. I'm not saying you don't have one, only that it is prolly unlikely. Are you noticing any dead hermits or snails?

If you are convinced you might have one, mantis traps are available...although their effectiveness is questionable.

 

[Anonymous]

Isn't drip acclimation the preferred method? How soon are you feeding the fish when you put them in your tank and are they eating? Do you ever see if the LFS feeds your purchase before taking it home?

 

[Anonymous]

You would prolly hear the mantis tapping on the rock in the tank. Bristle worms are not really a problem IME, they can't hurt a healthy fish. They can suck on your corals though.
Andy

 

[Anonymous]

brewer, you said you just moved; how long has the tank been re-set up?

It could be that it's cycling from die-off due to the move and an ammonia spike (you did say your test kit reagent was caked so I would NOT trust the zero readout) could be killing your more sensitive critters.

 

[brewerbob]

The pumps are too noisy to hear a mantis (not that I would know one if it jumped up and bit me).

The snails all died off rather mysteriously some time ago. They were doing great, breeding and everything. The wife counted 50 baby snails one day before loosing count. Then they way just disappeared. I think I was having temperature problems at the same time. 5-6 degree swings in a day. Didn't hurt the fish at the time tho.

I am low on hermits but since they don't reproduce I'm probably due for some new ones anyway. They don't live much beyond 2 years do they?

The LFS in SC quarrinteed the fish for 4 weeks before putting them in display tanks. They were the fattest fish I've seen in a store. The Mandarin was snipping at the rock like he was supposed to. And looked fat and happy.

Drip acclimation??? I've only heard of 1/2 cup every half hour until the water volume is doubled. Of course the more gradual the better but who wants to keep their fish in a plastic bag for 6 months? How fast is the drip, how often is the drip, and how would you get the drip into the bag?

I expected a spike off die off that is the reason I don't trust the zero reading. I really had no die off tho so it might be right. The bristles died. I know they don't bother fish; I just threw that in there as a gauge to what else may have suffered from the temp. As I was saying the Bristle and the coroline (in the tank) are the only things to die. The rock was completely submerged the entire trip as well as the gravel bed. Anyone ever try to move a 45 gallon garbage can with 80+lb of rock and 30 gallons of water?!!!

The tank was setup the next day after the trip. I set the heater at 70* to bring it up fairly quickly. The rock went back into the tank during this. The fish and mushrooms were in a seperate bucket. When everyone was at about 65* they all went into the tank. I bumped up the temperature every day by 2 or 3 degrees. The tank had been at 76* for a week before the Mandarin went in.

Yes, I know it wasn't a 6 week cycle time. I used all the orignal water, all the orignal rock, the gravel bed stayed in the tank with 3" of water, and all the other fish (2 tangs and "Puffy") were acting normal. The Yellow tang had a brown spot on him that looked like a bruise on a person but that dissappeared in a couple of days. The wife though he lost his color and became translucent. He's bright yellow again and seems fine.

 

[Anonymous]

BB, I still say you should (reliably) test your water. No matter how careful your move was, things are bound to die off and that could affect your parameters.

As far as a drip acclimation system, it's simply where you use some kind of container and hose wth a regulator to add water to the new arrivals slowly. Think like an IV setup used in a hospital. Over the course of say an hour you'd double the water volume in the bags, and you adjust this by measuring how fast the drips come out of the tubing and increasing or decreasing the output flow.

Here's a link to a simple design I found in another thread on this site, he uses it for Kalkwasser but I built one this weekend to drip acclimate some new arrivals out of a 1/2 gallon jug.

http://www.reefwebsites.com/agu/kalkdrip/

 

[brewerbob]

I'll run a sample to the LFS and see what they say.