- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
20 gallon- day 5 for the Regal- i have done (2) 50% water chges yesterday and today, and it hardly budges- still showing about .25mg/l. Until yesterday- it was fine. What should I do?? Thanks in advance.
Ammonia in QT
- Thread starter Rlumenator
- Start date
We must trace it to the source if indeed there is one... ammonia can be accounted for 100% in the cycling marine system (eventually). I'd recommend a comparison testing with a completely separate ammonia test kit to eliminate a bad test possibility. Old reagents/calibrations or whatever (just a possibility)
Even though I haven't seen it unless the live rock was especially dense right from the pickings, let's start there as step one. Dieoff is possible, especially if tank parameters have been varying wildly stressing all the do-gooders among the cracks and crevices. If it was aged LR from an established reef tank, I'd be less suspicious. Take it out and smell it@!
You didn't use a shrimp (cocktail) or a damsel for cycling purposes that aren't accounted for, right?
Lastly, substrate and known organisms. Did you seed from another system and that is a possible dieoff? Can you account for all your new animals whatever they may be> I feel confident it's one of these options, ammonia will originate from biological degredation of proteins and these are enough clues to solve the puzzle hopefully.
Good luck!
B
Even though I haven't seen it unless the live rock was especially dense right from the pickings, let's start there as step one. Dieoff is possible, especially if tank parameters have been varying wildly stressing all the do-gooders among the cracks and crevices. If it was aged LR from an established reef tank, I'd be less suspicious. Take it out and smell it@!
You didn't use a shrimp (cocktail) or a damsel for cycling purposes that aren't accounted for, right?
Lastly, substrate and known organisms. Did you seed from another system and that is a possible dieoff? Can you account for all your new animals whatever they may be> I feel confident it's one of these options, ammonia will originate from biological degredation of proteins and these are enough clues to solve the puzzle hopefully.
Good luck!
B
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
It's a Quarantine tank- the readings are accurate- as the reef tests 0 with this kit. How high of a reading is bad??
What are you using for filtration on the QT tank? Have you an established tank you can use as a source for water changes ? I like to use "old" water from my established tanks (which water is still within parameters) in any QT situation, and always have a sponge filter "running" in the established tanks to use in a QT to jumpstart the bacterial action.
That level is probably very toxic. How does the fish look?
That level is probably very toxic. How does the fish look?
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
The fish looks good. I am using an Aquaclear trickle with an aged sponge.
I 've had a snail and a hermit crab with some small pieces of live rock from the reef in the QT. This was up and running with no problems before I added the tang. What should I do?? I'm at a loss.
I 've had a snail and a hermit crab with some small pieces of live rock from the reef in the QT. This was up and running with no problems before I added the tang. What should I do?? I'm at a loss.
This has happened to me before with QTs.
You just have to keep doing large water changes until the tank cycles and adjusts to the new fish and you do less and less. Unfortunately, as soon as it adjusts, you'll be doing water changes to get rid of the nitrates. :lol:
I do what Lawdog said. I use the fresh mixed water for my reef and then reef water for my QT. That way all that water mixing gives my reef some fresh salt water and minerals and I don't have to do yet another water change on the reef.
Come to think of it, I ONLY give my reef water changes when I'm running a QT.
You just have to keep doing large water changes until the tank cycles and adjusts to the new fish and you do less and less. Unfortunately, as soon as it adjusts, you'll be doing water changes to get rid of the nitrates. :lol:
I do what Lawdog said. I use the fresh mixed water for my reef and then reef water for my QT. That way all that water mixing gives my reef some fresh salt water and minerals and I don't have to do yet another water change on the reef.
Come to think of it, I ONLY give my reef water changes when I'm running a QT.
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
My lfs said to add 1/2 tsp Prime; also to squeeze some of the nasties from my reef sponge into the QT. I looked back on my log- 3 days zero ammonia- on day 3, I cleaned the sponge in the trickle filter- day 4- ammonia!! Can you believe that?
I still disagree with their logic. Once again that is a retail/profit-generating mask (even though it's only a $6 dollar bottle of prime) which is unnecessary compared to what a free biological analysis can accomplish, No need to pay extra to remove ammonia, there is a design issue at stake here and this is one of the easiest to locate. If you have a verified test kit, not just a new/unused one, you simply have a rotting animal, congregated substrate sludge, or large-particle degredation somewhere in the system, or an instant tripling of bioload relative to your surface area and nitrifiers (like adding 8 new fish and all their feedings/waste load into a smaller tank setup for much less bioloading. Nothing else.
A sponge filter will not generate raw ammonia unless parameters in the system have been so far out of whack as to kill the nitrifiers (not likely). Even a dirty filter (reasonably dirty/neglected/but not full of whole food or waste particles) doesn't release detectable raw ammonia in the water column. Actually, it can be released in the sponge from rotting sludge and whole waste particles, but the proximity to the nitrifiers quickly oxidizes it into non-ammonia forms of nitrogen. Honestly, it has to be one of these above items, I'd hate to lose the ability to narrow it down before we neutralize it with an additive, just my two cents.
Squeeze the nasties out of that sponge into a sink, not a tank. If you want to share tank and QT parameters, do it with water that has similar dissolved compounds, but never whole waste particles and dejected waste mud. I can't think of one reason to ever transfer sludge from one tank to another, are they from mars?
(maybe I've misread somewhere)
B
A sponge filter will not generate raw ammonia unless parameters in the system have been so far out of whack as to kill the nitrifiers (not likely). Even a dirty filter (reasonably dirty/neglected/but not full of whole food or waste particles) doesn't release detectable raw ammonia in the water column. Actually, it can be released in the sponge from rotting sludge and whole waste particles, but the proximity to the nitrifiers quickly oxidizes it into non-ammonia forms of nitrogen. Honestly, it has to be one of these above items, I'd hate to lose the ability to narrow it down before we neutralize it with an additive, just my two cents.
Squeeze the nasties out of that sponge into a sink, not a tank. If you want to share tank and QT parameters, do it with water that has similar dissolved compounds, but never whole waste particles and dejected waste mud. I can't think of one reason to ever transfer sludge from one tank to another, are they from mars?
(maybe I've misread somewhere)B
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
This is a dedicated QT- no rotting bodies- very visible. The lfs is very helpful- I have Prime at home- as most people who have chlorine added to their water do. I think it makes sense to add the "nasties" to the flltr, as this is this is how we age our filters- by putting them in the sump to collect the nasties. I appreciate your help- but without the lfs- who of course needs to make a decent profit- we would be without product also. Do you not work to make a proft??? I sure do.
Dawn":24yl3g0o said:
I don't care much about Prime. Never saw a need for such a product.
If by "the nasties" you mean the crud that collects on sponge filters, then you don't want that.
The bacteria that you need to have a properly working biological filter is invisible. You can have a sponge that looks perfectly clean and it will still work very well as long as it has that invisible coating of nitrosoma and nitrobacter bacterias. Think of it like a film that coats everything in a properly cycled tank. Live rock and sponges are good media for that film because there is so much surface area on and in them.
The crud that builds up on filters in your tank is nothing but organic matter that will rot in your QT and just create more ammonia.
Also, if you take a sponge from your main tank and rinse it thoroughly in salt water until it looks totally clean, the bacteria film will still be there. You can't wash it off unless you killed it with chemicals. So no need to see any nasties or sludge.
I only help them make profit when they find me 1/2" acanth frags why give it away
Prime is helpful for chlorine removal IIRC, but you should never use it for ammonia in place of correct biological balances. Gaining control of ammonia is the #1 initial aspect of husbandry, after salinity control, in any marine aquarium. There is not one possible design that allows ammonia generation outpacing that of nitrification that will ever work long term, I'd say we at least wait another week so we can rule out basic cycling time and give the nitrobacters time to set it. **You all know right now I'm on the verge of making a little quip about a huge thread up in here, but for tact's sake I'll make my humor elsewhere
You don't have to age a tank with sludge, sharing water will work ideally because these bacteria and their spores are also suspended (yes the bulk would be affixed to substrate as the tank matures, but there are many CFU's that are suspended as they relocate within the tank, which helps when removing water to seed another system) along with some residual compounds that comprise the 'aged' status of the water. I hope you don't think we are tryin to be rude! We are trying to change your mind into not giving anyone free money, ever. Matter of fact, if they haven't tried to assess your ammonia source, before or at least along with the prime upsell, I'd be skeptical of anything you are buying from them aside from foods, hardware, animals, and calcium/alk supports. 90% of the professionals on this board only do that type of business at a LFS. You aren't using marc weiss additives are you?
why give it away Prime is helpful for chlorine removal IIRC, but you should never use it for ammonia in place of correct biological balances. Gaining control of ammonia is the #1 initial aspect of husbandry, after salinity control, in any marine aquarium. There is not one possible design that allows ammonia generation outpacing that of nitrification that will ever work long term, I'd say we at least wait another week so we can rule out basic cycling time and give the nitrobacters time to set it. **You all know right now I'm on the verge of making a little quip about a huge thread up in here, but for tact's sake I'll make my humor elsewhere
You don't have to age a tank with sludge, sharing water will work ideally because these bacteria and their spores are also suspended (yes the bulk would be affixed to substrate as the tank matures, but there are many CFU's that are suspended as they relocate within the tank, which helps when removing water to seed another system) along with some residual compounds that comprise the 'aged' status of the water. I hope you don't think we are tryin to be rude! We are trying to change your mind into not giving anyone free money, ever. Matter of fact, if they haven't tried to assess your ammonia source, before or at least along with the prime upsell, I'd be skeptical of anything you are buying from them aside from foods, hardware, animals, and calcium/alk supports. 90% of the professionals on this board only do that type of business at a LFS. You aren't using marc weiss additives are you?
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
I think you are missing the point- This a quarantine tank that I presently have a Regal tang in- need to get rid of the ammonia problem. Don't want to add him to the reef tank early, as I'm afraid of ick ( I have a nice chevron in the main tank). Cape Coral water has chlorine in it- thus the Prime I had on hand. No- I don't buy Weiss products presently, Most of my supplies come from That Fish Place as they have good prices. Fishes and corals come from surrounding stores. Regards, Dawn.
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
I forgot to add- it was when I cleaned that sponge that my problems began, or is it just coincidence?? running for weeks without a problem.
yea I may be lost, I thought this was a new cycling tank. One that had been running a while and had a sponge squeezed out shouldn't leak the raw ammonia I'd think...hmmm. Well, at least this keeps the bump up to let others chime it, we'll get it under control soon enough! Len what do you think man?
B
B
Dawn
I routinely test at that level in my 55g mixed reef. Yet things are fine.
Prime will lock up the ammonia and also lock oxygen.
It could have bumped up with cleaning the sponge. But if you killed all your aerobic bacteria and has really really serious problems, the ammonia would be many times higher with .25 ppm.
As long as the fish don't seem stressed or are breathing heavily things should be fine.
Just my .02
I routinely test at that level in my 55g mixed reef. Yet things are fine.
Prime will lock up the ammonia and also lock oxygen.
It could have bumped up with cleaning the sponge. But if you killed all your aerobic bacteria and has really really serious problems, the ammonia would be many times higher with .25 ppm.
As long as the fish don't seem stressed or are breathing heavily things should be fine.
Just my .02
Dawn":146pphva said:
Did you clean the sponge in fresh water or saltwater?
Do you have any waterflow besided the aquaclear filter?
It never hurts to do a large waterchange to reduce ammonia. Typically I'll put the new saltwater in the display tank and then the old display tank water can be used for a change in the quaranteen tank (dispose of the old QT water).
Dawn":1loae5sd said:
But that fish wasn't in there for weeks right? I thought it was a few days after you added the fish that the ammonia spiked.
It would be strange for the tank to have the same bioload for weeks with no ammonia and then out of nowhere have an ammonia spike...that would mean something went wrong to kill off some bacteria.
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