Grounding probes and GFCI....IMPORTANT!

[Anonymous]

I have a grounding probe, and it works great for small measurements of stray voltage. I had 14 or so stray volts running through the tank at one point, added the grounding probe, and eliminated the stray voltage. However, I did it before I added the GFCI a week later, because I didint realize the following, fatal information:

Article in the Jan issue of Coral magazine:
"If you want to take saftey one step further, you can ground your aquarium with a grounding probe. If current enters the water, (for example, from an improperly insulated cable of the pump) this option has the current run straight into the ground without flowing through your body first.

This is pretty elegant protecion from an electrical shock, but absolutely requires a GFCI!

The reason is simple. Any other part or device such as the casing of a lamp, may accidentally carry current. And if the aquarist touches the lamp and at the same time reaches into the water of the grounded aquarium, the current will most likely run from the casing through the arm into the upper torso (where the heart is) into the other arm and finally into the water, where the grounding probe will guide it toward the circuit ground.

This would, in all likelyhood be a fatal shock. Never ground the aquarium without a gfci-this is even more dangerous than no circuit breaker at all."

 

[Len]

I've GFCIed everything in my new tank. I got shocked twice in my old tank, and my fish had it bad when a heater exploded. Never again.

 

[Anonymous]

Or you could be smart and run a ground from your lighting that is directly attached to the casing like is advised in most every case

Of course you could also be safer remove the damn grounding probe (don't get me started on those), and find what is responsible for your stray voltage, remove it from the tank, and get it fixed or replace it. Would you continue to use a ballast that had sparks shooting out of it? Well guess what that's essentially what's occuring in your tank when you have "stray voltage".

Best way is to turn off things one at a time to see which makes the voltage go away, then uplug that, turn everything on, and repeat as something else could as well.

But yah, you're sticking your hands in saltwater and working around fairly high current, there are some inherant dangers.

 

[Rikko]

I've also grown disenfranchised with grounding probes over the past few years.. They serve no beneficial purpose at all.. Instead of just allowing an area of potential difference to exist (eg. your aquarium which is insulated from the rest of the world), you create a current path and your tank is now an electrical circuit.

The small amount of electricity inducted via your oscillating lamps (eg. fluorescents) is insignificant and invisible to your critters. Your tank could have 50,000V induced in it - as long as the tank is insulated the net charge difference is zero and nothing in your tank would even know it... Unless, of course, you ground yourself and become one with the water column... Then you'd feel a tickle.

 

[pwj1286]

I got the piss shocked out of me at my work (LFS) because some jackass straddled (sitting on top across the opening) the sump with the powerstrip.

I went to fix a protien skimmer that had overflowed and was misting everything the whole night and I did not see the powerstip. ZAP.

I had my whole arm in the sump up to my armpit. I could have died.

All tanks should have a grounding probe.
_________________
Mercedes CLK GTR

 

[trido]

Its not the volts that will kill you.. Its the AMPS!!
IF you have 110 volts at 1 amp you will hardly notice it.
If you have 110 volts at 40 amps you will probably get tossed across the room.
It never really does feel good though.. Unless your just plain weird

 

[FragMaster]

More than one for large tanks.
Also a good idea to only use indor out door GFCI's. You can make your own GFCI bar plug rubber booty cover from an old inner tube and some super glue.
Works like a charm!
Dont have to worry so much about the ocasional drip,or splash if your recepticles are near the tank.

Personaly I have all of my grounds running to one lead and then that lead ties in to the grounding probe through the wall and outside.
Never been bit yet! LOL!


FUNNY you should mention that !
I once got hit by a 440 bus while on a forklift! LOL!!!
Bit the shiat out of my arm! LOL!! (Arced off the frame and got me.)
Pretty nice burn. Nice little scar too LOL!!!
The guy in the lift ahead of me had just went through with a load up and didnt pay atention. Hit the bus knocked it loose, it fell and WHAMO!!!!
440 volts of white light, and yellow sparks!!! LOL!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Ground probes are not safety devices, GFCI's are. Grounding your tank does not make it safe, in fact it increases the possibility of injury!

 

[bug0926]

Can someone explain with one of those portable GFCI (from home depot) mini extension cords, that after a power outage, the gfci trips, or why it trips when my lights go on? For these reasons I haven't been able to use one. And this happened in two houses....is it the gfci or something else?

 

[Anonymous]

Its not the volts that will kill you.. Its the AMPS!!
IF you have 110 volts at 1 amp you will hardly notice it.
If you have 110 volts at 40 amps you will probably get tossed across the room.

Bit of a misconseption this "rule", because it is the volts that kill you because the voltage is what dictates how many amps move through any item depending upon it's resistance, it's the reason you see "Danger High Voltage" signs and not High Amperage, because it depends upon your resistance to whether you get zapped to hell or not. (Chicken & Egg argument here though ). Problem is arm submerged in salt water can really lower the resistance a ton, if you have ANY cuts or open wounds, forget about it, that's the next best thing to having copper wire straight to your heart

One final, and most important, thing to remember involving resistance of the human body, is that everyone is different and there can be be a couple orders of magnitude difference depending upon specific body chemistry (high iron blood, etc) so what's a tingling sensatino for one person can be down right painful for another (or lethal). So just because your buddy feels a slight shock doesn't mean that's all you'll feel. So if you wear latex or poly gloves, great because your skin is dry, if you wear thick rubber gloves even better because there's more likely a gap of air between you and the glove that's dry.

Can someone explain with one of those portable GFCI (from home depot) mini extension cords, that after a power outage, the gfci trips, or why it trips when my lights go on? For these reasons I haven't been able to use one. And this happened in two houses....is it the gfci or something else?

Well 1 of two things, 1 the GFCI might be faulty some how, but I highly doubt that, what I'm thinking is perhaps your ballasts for your lights are magnetic, and I have heard of quite a few stories of those tripping GFCIs. Power goes out, capacitors take a finite time to discharge, transformers too (they're inductors that store power), power is out so no power is going into the system but there is some trickling out, and GFCIs don't care whether the there's more going in than coming out they only care about a difference, and that is most likely the issue. I would have this happen occassionally when my MH lights would just turn off or on (but not all the time). Now my lights that are controlled by electronic ballasts, absolutely no issues with the GFCI.

Now I'm unsure if they make GFCIs that can differentiate between incoming/outgoing current, since I'm not up on the state of the art of the technology.

 

[Anonymous]

I've also grown disenfranchised with grounding probes over the past few years.. They serve no beneficial purpose at all.. Instead of just allowing an area of potential difference to exist (eg. your aquarium which is insulated from the rest of the world), you create a current path and your tank is now an electrical circuit.

The small amount of electricity inducted via your oscillating lamps (eg. fluorescents) is insignificant and invisible to your critters. Your tank could have 50,000V induced in it - as long as the tank is insulated the net charge difference is zero and nothing in your tank would even know it... Unless, of course, you ground yourself and become one with the water column... Then you'd feel a tickle.

Stray voltage has been linked to HLLE, reduced/abnormal coral growth, and "molting" species whereas the effects it has on the way/frequency they molt.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think those HLLE theories panned out, and it turned out to be diet/water condtions, IIRC.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think those HLLE theories panned out, and it turned out to be diet/water condtions, IIRC.

Oh, sorry for the misinformation then...last I read about stray voltage HLLE was still on the list, but it was a while back.

Thanks for the update.

 

[pcragg]

How about the theory that electricity encourages coral growth???

http://globalcoral.org/Electric%20Reefs.htm

 

[FragMaster]

IT DOES. Its not a theory. It inhibits calcium growth. They ran an experiment using a bare steel cage on the ocean floor with no reef near it. Ransome juice through it, and in less thana week calcium carbonate deposits were all over it, 4 moths it looked like a funky white thick skeleton, 1 year and it was all calcium rock with corals growing on it! LOL!!


"Ground probes are not safety devices, GFCI's are. Grounding your tank does not make it safe, in fact it increases the possibility of injury!
"
WHAT?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you have a question other than,"What?". What is it that you don't understand?

 

[Anonymous]

IMO (correct me if I am putting words in your mouth) What he (cwa46) is saying is that the grounding probe can make stray voltage undetectable to you in many situations. There is still some problem that is causing the stray voltage. Ignoring it or not knowing about it can make it get much worse. And then you stumble across one of the few situations where a probe will not protect you and you die.

My 2cp is: Use your GFCIs, your common sense and take care of your equipment and power cables. Forget the probes.

 

[FragMaster]

CHACHING!
THanks cknowlto .

 

[Anonymous]

Watch a lineman working on power lines. They don't strap a ground to thier leg before going up the pole. They limit any exposure to ground, so if they mistakenly contact a live conductor they don't die. Now we fill a water bucket with electrical devices and then ground it. Now put your hand in it and touch your lights. Only a GFCI will save you if there is a short.

 

[FragMaster]

Now your comparing apples to oranges.
The dont ground themselves so the electricty will flow over them and not through them.
We REDIRECT stray voltage in our tanks to run THROUGH the grounding probes. I think some people may be thinking I am saying if you drop a live wire in your tank your safe with a probe. NOT!!!!
The only purpose it serves is to redirect the minimal stray voltage that may harm corals and fish in our tanks. Period
NOT FOR PERSONAL SAFETY. If you drop a live wire in your tank and your hand is in it your screwed period, with or with out a probe. Either way your SCREWED, no matter what with or with out a probe because you are grounded simply by standing on the floor of your home. IT WILL NOT INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF SHOCK YOU RECIEVE. It cant. Think about it ITS A GROUND, not a live wire. If anything it will decrease the amount some what by asorbing a certain amount of the shock and redirecting it. IF YOU HAVE IT SET UP CORRECTLY. Glass is an insulator so with out one you basicly have a giant capacitor waiting to be charged.
In order for THIS sort of ground to work properly,and gain maxium use, you must have it conected solidly to an unpainted, un corroded, metalice surface, and should be ran through your recepticles ground that runs to the ground in the earth ( hense the name "ground") on the outside of your home.