Grounding probes and GFCI....IMPORTANT!

[Anonymous]

"Either way your SCREWED, no matter what with or with out a probe because you are grounded simply by standing on the floor of your home. "

Untrue. By standing on my floor with a pair of shoes on, I would not be grounded. But, touch any part of the tank and I am. So how does that increase my safety?
These issues have been argued by smarter people than me. Do a search and you will see that there is no real evidence that a probe does anything any good, but they bring a good price at the pet store.

 

[trido]

[/quote]
Bit of a misconseption this "rule", because it is the volts that kill you because the voltage is what dictates how many amps move through any item depending upon it's resistance, it's the reason you see "Danger High Voltage" signs and not High Amperage, because it depends upon your resistance to whether you get zapped to hell or not. (Chicken & Egg argument here though ). Problem is arm submerged in salt water can really lower the resistance a ton, if you have ANY cuts or open wounds, forget about it, that's the next best thing to having copper wire straight to your heart

One final, and most important, thing to remember involving resistance of the human body, is that everyone is different and there can be be a couple orders of magnitude difference depending upon specific body chemistry (high iron blood, etc) so what's a tingling sensatino for one person can be down right painful for another (or lethal). So just because your buddy feels a slight shock doesn't mean that's all you'll feel. So if you wear latex or poly gloves, great because your skin is dry, if you wear thick rubber gloves even better because there's more likely a gap of air between you and the glove that's dry.

Just to kick the dead horse.
You do have valid points there. I dont claim to know every thing. I did assume that we were talking about a 110 electrical outlet at your home which is 20 amps or less. Not a power transfer station of 100,000 volts or more. I guess I should have clarified

 

[FragMaster]

Line men where thick rubber inslulated leather gloves so they dont get as bad a shock if they touch the one that bites. WHICH THEY AVOID AT ALL COSTS. Traditinal Line men DO NOT WORK ON LIVE WIRES. They shut the source down or divert it.

Your still grounded. period. ( now go to your room! LOL!) The amount of voltage and ampheres it takes to make you feel it is the key ( Like trido88 touched on). If you dont believe me squat down with your shoes on and stick a screw driver in the posetive side of the recepticle.

( PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALY DO THIS IT WILL HURT YOU AND POSSIBLY KILL YOU!!!!)

I bet you have a shocking discovery with your nuetral shoes on LOL!!

In Europe and in California you will see hellicopters hovering over high voltage power lines with a nut dangling over the side on a safety line.
That nut is totaly nuetral when he is suspended. He could grab a live wire and nothing would happend to him becasue he is not grounded what so ever.

BTW your not grounded touching the side of your tank.
GLASS AND PLASTIC ARE INSULATORS (they deflect current). Water is the conductor. Thats why I said if your hand is in the tank and a live wire hits it your screwed.

 

[Anonymous]

Line men where thick rubber inslulated leather gloves so they dont get as bad a shock if they touch the one that bites. WHICH THEY AVOID AT ALL COSTS. Traditinal Line men DO NOT WORK ON LIVE WIRES. They shut the source down or divert it.

Your still grounded. period. ( now go to your room! LOL!) The amount of voltage and ampheres it takes to make you feel it is the key ( Like trido88 touched on). If you dont believe me squat down with your shoes on and stick a screw driver in the posetive side of the recepticle.

( PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALY DO THIS IT WILL HURT YOU AND POSSIBLY KILL YOU!!!!)

I bet you have a shocking discovery with your nuetral shoes on LOL!!

In Europe and in California you will see hellicopters hovering over high voltage power lines with a nut dangling over the side on a safety line.
That nut is totaly nuetral when he is suspended. He could grab a live wire and nothing would happend to him becasue he is not grounded what so ever.

BTW your not grounded touching the side of your tank.
GLASS AND PLASTIC ARE INSULATORS (they deflect current). Water is the conductor. Thats why I said if your hand is in the tank and a live wire hits it your screwed.

You appear to know very little about electricity. To be grounded you need to offer a path for electrical current to go to a grounding rod outside your home or the third wire nutural installed by your power company. Standing on a dry floor with shoes on will not ground you. For example, in the manufacturing of electronic boards, the handlers must be grounded with wrist or ankle grounding straps to dissipate any static buildup that could ruin the chips.
Now if you are in contact with a light fixtre with a short, and then put your hand in a grounded tank, it will probably kill you. If the tank were not grounded, there would probably be no current flow at all, since you aren't grounded. How does that improve your safety?

That is why linemen try not to be grounded. If they do make a mistake, and they are not grounded, it will save thier life. So tell me again why you need a ground probe.

 

[FragMaster]

1st, the nuetral and ground are TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS,in a receptical.
The ground goes no where but in to the ground.

2nd chip makers and board handelers are grounded because of staic electricity brought on by the air and there clothing. AGAIN A TOTALY DIFFERENT ANIMAL.

3rd, If your touching a light fixture with a posetive ground to the case ( WHICH IS THE ONLY WAY YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED FROM IT),and you dont feel it before you stick your hand in the tank (provided it hasnt blown a fuse,or a circuit and has alrady been shut down),either you just had a stroke, and that side just went numb,or your an idoit.

My point over all isnt that we NEED a ground probe or else.
It is that you can and WILL BE SHOCKED even if you have shoes on by electricity even if your on a dry hard wood floor with shoes on,or if you have ground probes and your hand is in the tank and somthing bad happends.
Your hearing what you want to i guess? LOL!
I never said a ground probe would save you,I said it might help you a little.
The fact is we are both right in what we are talking about, we are just not talking about the same scenarios.

 

[Anonymous]

1st, the nuetral and ground are TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS,in a receptical.
The ground goes no where but in to the ground.

2nd chip makers and board handelers are grounded because of staic electricity brought on by the air and there clothing. AGAIN A TOTALY DIFFERENT ANIMAL.

3rd, If your touching a light fixture with a posetive ground to the case ( WHICH IS THE ONLY WAY YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED FROM IT),and you dont feel it before you stick your hand in the tank (provided it hasnt blown a fuse,or a circuit and has alrady been shut down),either you just had a stroke, and that side just went numb,or your an idoit.

My point over all isnt that we NEED a ground probe or else.
It is that you can and WILL BE SHOCKED even if you have shoes on by electricity even if your on a dry hard wood floor with shoes on,or if you have ground probes and your hand is in the tank and somthing bad happends.
Your hearing what you want to i guess? LOL!
I never said a ground probe would save you,I said it might help you a little.
The fact is we are both right in what we are talking about, we are just not talking about the same scenarios.

"1st, the nuetral and ground are TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS,in a receptical.
The ground goes no where but in to the ground." Wrong, all the nuetral and the ground wires are bonded at the service panel.

"2nd chip makers and board handelers are grounded because of staic electricity brought on by the air and there clothing. AGAIN A TOTALY DIFFERENT ANIMAL." No matter the source of the voltage, it tries to go to ground and cannot, since shoes and a dry floor provide insulation from ground. Wrong again.

Your point is that you don't know enough about electricity to discuss this, so I will quitl Whenever you are presented with data you can't explain, it is a "Totally Different Animal".

 

[FragMaster]

Meaning they serve two seprate purposes jack ass.

 

[Anonymous]

Meaning they serve two seprate purposes jack ass.

Yes they do, but in the case of our discussion, both would serve a path to "ground". The name calling shows you are also misinformed about manners.

Please do not lead others to believe as you do, without merit, that the addition of a ground probe does not increase your risk of a shock. Without a GFCI to portect you, nobody should ground a tank. I see no reason to ever ground a tank. What good does it do?

No call me some silly name and dodge the issue again!

 

[FragMaster]

LOL ! your right I got mad and I shouldnt have. I apologize.

SINCE THIS THREAD IS TITTLED "Grounding probes and GFCI....IMPORTANT! "

Thats the discussion remember. All I have stated was under the assumtion that we already had a GFCI in place.
BUT even with out one the breaker will trip and stop the current .You will still get the crap shocked out of you though (evenworse). WITH A GCFI IN PLACE YOU WILL GET THE CRAP SHOCKED OUT OF YOU. Just for a shorter period! LOL!

Again...the purpose of a ground probe is to REDIRECT STRAY VOLTAGE FROM YOUR WATER COLLUM. PERIOD. I dont see why that is so hard to understand? How am I avoiding a thing?


Lets just agree to disagree! LOL!!

 

[Len]

Fragman,

Please take some time to read your posts before you press 'post reply.' I appreciate the apology, but it's better to not have to apologize in the first place. Your posts as of late are more abrasive.

 

[FragMaster]

Your right.
Funny how "real world" activities effect every thing you do LOL!
My wife just told me the same thing! (only worse!!!!)