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charles matthews

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Terry, could you consider using only a large tumbling mat of Chaetomorpha to filter your tank, without using substrate? You could always add the sand later...

I'm working with an experimental tank for Dendros. No substrate, large rapid flow sump with extremely bright 24 hr lighting, no substrate, no skimming, using a diatom filter with carbon once/week. The idea is to prevent Vibrio and all the bacterial nasties that have given the shrimp commercial farmers and larval fish raisers so much trouble. I think as we increase food to our tanks, the bacteria grow faster, either leading to early old tank syndrome or bacterial toxins or perhaps starvation when the bacteria overgrow the food supply. Also, Delbeek and Sprung have a wonderful discussion of advection of plankton in sand.

the shrimp farmers will tell you that shrimp beds decline; sulfur filters clog with bacteria; vodka gives you more bacteria in films than in does in the water colulmn. Bacteria work, but they have to be removed by skimming and vigorous water movement- and I just think for heavy feeding, deep sand beds become competitive with filter feeders. And, invariably, outcompete them through chemical warfare or nutritional outcompetition.

Chaetomorpha mats are wonderful- they need some Kent's iron and molybdenum, and trade elements, and they do best when tumbling. If they get dirty you can soak them in tap water for two minutes and they come out clean of bacterial films. Other than possibly needing a co2 and controller, the setup could be simple to operate.

I am also considering scaling this up for a greenhouse; a large pool of Chaeto that surges into the culture pool, briefly leaving the bed exposed to air/co2 and direct sunlight. Detritus and bacterial floc could be cleaned by tapwater hose and venting out the back. A harpactacoid copepod wold be happy in this medium.

You have to get over the belief that sand beds provide such wonderful amounts of plankton. Compared to a chaeto mat, I just don't think they do- and they are much less likely to advect what polnkton they do produce. Chaeto is not as "sticky" as much of the bacterial films around the aquarium, too.

And feeding causes skimmers to collapse. Not Chaeto mats.

Remember, Terry, you heard it here first- if you want to feed, substrates are obsolete!


Charles Matthews M.D.
disagreements welcomed
 

AF Founder

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Very, very interesting. Not sure which way I'm going with my new tank, but will let you know.
Keep me posted, and keep records for a future article for us. :D
 

AF Founder

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charles matthews":iv2ho2ux said:
Terry, could you consider using only a large tumbling mat of Chaetomorpha to filter your tank, without using substrate? You could always add the sand later...

I'm working with an experimental tank for Dendros. No substrate, large rapid flow sump with extremely bright 24 hr lighting, no substrate, no skimming, using a diatom filter with carbon once/week. The idea is to prevent Vibrio and all the bacterial nasties that have given the shrimp commercial farmers and larval fish raisers so much trouble. I think as we increase food to our tanks, the bacteria grow faster, either leading to early old tank syndrome or bacterial toxins or perhaps starvation when the bacteria overgrow the food supply. Also, Delbeek and Sprung have a wonderful discussion of advection of plankton in sand.

the shrimp farmers will tell you that shrimp beds decline; sulfur filters clog with bacteria; vodka gives you more bacteria in films than in does in the water colulmn. Bacteria work, but they have to be removed by skimming and vigorous water movement- and I just think for heavy feeding, deep sand beds become competitive with filter feeders. And, invariably, outcompete them through chemical warfare or nutritional outcompetition.

Chaetomorpha mats are wonderful- they need some Kent's iron and molybdenum, and trade elements, and they do best when tumbling. If they get dirty you can soak them in tap water for two minutes and they come out clean of bacterial films. Other than possibly needing a co2 and controller, the setup could be simple to operate.

I am also considering scaling this up for a greenhouse; a large pool of Chaeto that surges into the culture pool, briefly leaving the bed exposed to air/co2 and direct sunlight. Detritus and bacterial floc could be cleaned by tapwater hose and venting out the back. A harpactacoid copepod wold be happy in this medium.

You have to get over the belief that sand beds provide such wonderful amounts of plankton. Compared to a chaeto mat, I just don't think they do- and they are much less likely to advect what polnkton they do produce. Chaeto is not as "sticky" as much of the bacterial films around the aquarium, too.

And feeding causes skimmers to collapse. Not Chaeto mats.

Remember, Terry, you heard it here first- if you want to feed, substrates are obsolete!


Charles Matthews M.D.
disagreements welcomed

Julian Sprung sent me the following regarding this discussion:
"
Interesting beginning for a discussion. Yes it was our intention to point out the loss of food to sandbeds, but it was not our intention to suggest that reef aquariums should not have sandbeds... on the contrary!

Yes I would agree that designing a system for cultivating certain filter feeders might involve having no sandbed, and incorporating algal filters... the idea makes sense, and follows from the advection discussion. The use of Chaetomorpha is a very manageable practice, and will certainly become more popular with time. I have been growing tons of it and experimenting with its capacity for nutrient uptake. pH stabilization and oxygen generation. I have not done a comparison with it used in a substrate free aquarium. There's always something new to test.

I have noticed a bit of pendulum swinging lately regarding substrate use. FWIW I still like sandbeds used as biological filters. The one point that Dr. Mathews missed (and it is just a brief mention in the margin in TRA3) is that biological filtration in sandbeds is not just nitrogen cycle management. It also involves the destruction (by microorganisms, including bacteria) of toxic substances produced as chemical warfare by various corals, other invertebrates, plants, and bacteria. This function is what helps PREVENT old tank syndrome. It is the failure of this function (when the sandbed becomes plugged up) that leads to problems. Ah yes, I know you are waiting for that article- coming soon!

That a substrate free aquarium offers special protection against Vibrio is an idea that I have heard floated many times, but I have not seen a scientific basis for it. It may be true, but I don't see how. Chemical competition by algae supressing Vibrio is more reasonable, and may work.

Sandbeds, through advection and biological activity, are key for recycling of nutrients in the same manner that nutrients are recycled in shallow benthic habitats, as Charles and I show in The Reef Aquarium vol 3. While there is certainly rapid food loss to sandbeds, there is potentially substantial food production, especially by and for the creatures that live in and one the sandbed. The trapping feature is key for them."

Cheers,

Julian Sprung
 

Gary Majchrzak

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"I have noticed a bit of pendulum swinging lately regarding substrate use. FWIW I still like sandbeds used as biological filters. The one point that Dr. Mathews missed (and it is just a brief mention in the margin in TRA3) is that biological filtration in sandbeds is not just nitrogen cycle management. It also involves the destruction (by microorganisms, including bacteria) of toxic substances produced as chemical warfare by various corals, other invertebrates, plants, and bacteria. This function is what helps PREVENT old tank syndrome. It is the failure of this function (when the sandbed becomes plugged up) that leads to problems. Ah yes, I know you are waiting for that article- coming soon!"

Can anyone help me locate the article Julian Sprung is referring to in this paragraph? TIA, Gary
 

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