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jumpincactus

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Hi all, I was absolutley fascinated with the artcle on the Jaubert type setup that a Mr. Frank Esser wrote about. Can the average aquarist really keep a tank as beautiful as the one featured using such a simplistic approach? I mean I can see that Mr. Esser has accomplished this. I guess I am wondering if a guy like myself could actually pull this type of system off.

Has anyone in this forum tried the Jaubert type setup and what have been your feelings and results.???
 

Len

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I've had a Jaubert tank (50 gallon) for a short span (about 1.5 years) and it did fine. However, the chief complaint about this method is it's unreliable over the long term. Some of complained about the tank suddenly "bombing" after several years, with many theories stated for why this happens. The original Jaubert system in Nice, France, is actually a poor archtype for average reefkeepers since their tank is semi-open (whereas our tanks are closed systems).

IMO, the Jaubert method is feasible for the short term but it's long term efficacy is questionable. Many experts (like Rob Toonen, pHD) are also of the opinion that it's no better then a deep sand bed which was the prevelant method in the early 2000s (DSBs, as you probably know, are losing favor).
 

hfmann

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(DSBs, as you probably know, are losing favor).

Why do you think that is Len? What do you see as the up and coming preference?

I changed over to a DSB a couple of years ago and am now wondering if I did the right thing.

Hal
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hfmann":94hbm1ve said:
(DSBs, as you probably know, are losing favor).

Why do you think that is Len? What do you see as the up and coming preference?

I changed over to a DSB a couple of years ago and am now wondering if I did the right thing.

Hal

There seems to be the idea that DSB's can 'fill up' with ickies, and that once this happens, the ickies get rereleased into he water column.

However, I think the main reason DSB's may be losing favor is because there are just too many versions of what they are supposed to do, how they are supposed to do it, and how they are supposed to be cared for.

I have no idea if you did the right thing, as there are so many versions of the right thing in this hobby! :D

I ditched my DSB because it got disturbed twice, and each time I lost many animals. Others have had different experiences. For me, I don't feel comfortable keeping something in the tank that has the potential to wipe it out - same reason I don't keep a sea apple.

Another reason DSB's may be losing favor is aesthetics. Committing 3-6 inches or more of your show tank to sand doesn't make all that much sense to me. I am far happier having a faux sand bed on the bottom of my tank, and using those other inches for animals I want to look at. That said different people feel differently and some like the look of a deep sand bed and want to keep the animals that live in it. :D
 

jumpincactus

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Thank you all for your input on my questions :)

Righty...... is the DSB (deep sand bed) also the same sand bed that Julian Sprung and Deebek talk about in the Reef Aquarium Vol 1 pgs 215-220?

The impression I got from this reading was, that a sand bed was actually overlooked by many aquarists in it's importance of adding to the water quality of the tank. Sprung maintains that as long as the reef keeper takes care to incorporate the right types of cleaning crews to keep the sand bed stirred up that the toxic zones that could potentially bomb a system are not a factor.

Is it this groups opinion that keeping a sand bed is not a good thing to do? I had actually considered doing a clean bottom setup without any sand. But I also agree with Sprung in keeping as natural a look as possible that a sand bed is important. I ask because as I get closer to actually setting up my 120, ,,,,,,I of course would like to keep any potential problem to a minimum.

Or am I confusing the whole matter and a two inch bed of coral sand is not the DSB we are speaking about.

I will say that this is going to be one heck of a journey :) Confusing at times with so much information and opinions as to really know which is the way to go. I hope you all can have patience with me as I set my system up and I will be asking lots of questions. And if I seem lost and confused at times it probably cause I am LOL......
So my last question will be this........... Share with me what some of you did to weed thru the information overload when you were beginners and how you decided and figured out who to listen to and how if in gathering information the information you were getting was sound practice.

Thanx
 
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jumpincactus":1xv5df91 said:
Thank you all for your input on my questions :)

Righty...... is the DSB (deep sand bed) also the same sand bed that Julian Sprung and Deebek talk about in the Reef Aquarium Vol 1 pgs 215-220?

I am not home right now so I cant check the reference! :D

The impression I got from this reading was, that a sand bed was actually overlooked by many aquarists in it's importance of adding to the water quality of the tank. Sprung maintains that as long as the reef keeper takes care to incorporate the right types of cleaning crews to keep the sand bed stirred up that the toxic zones that could potentially bomb a system are not a factor.

That is definatly one of the ideas behind a DSB. There are others though, and the proponents do not all agree with each other. I love Sprung and Delbeek, and I feel that they usually do a good job at not being dogmatic. I will check the reference on Monday - unless I forget!

s it this groups opinion that keeping a sand bed is not a good thing to do? I had actually considered doing a clean bottom setup without any sand. But I also agree with Sprung in keeping as natural a look as possible that a sand bed is important. I ask because as I get closer to actually setting up my 120, ,,,,,,I of course would like to keep any potential problem to a minimum.

You will find almost as many opinions as you will find RDO members. :D

When I ditched my sand I was bare bottom and didn't like it at all. Now with my Faux Sand Bottom I love it - all the pros of BB with the aesthetics of sand.

Or am I confusing the whole matter and a two inch bed of coral sand is not the DSB we are speaking about.

Again, it depends who you are talking to. :D In general, a DSB is considered to be 3 inches plus.

I will say that this is going to be one heck of a journey :) Confusing at times with so much information and opinions as to really know which is the way to go. I hope you all can have patience with me as I set my system up and I will be asking lots of questions. And if I seem lost and confused at times it probably cause I am LOL......
So my last question will be this........... Share with me what some of you did to weed thru the information overload when you were beginners and how you decided and figured out who to listen to and how if in gathering information the information you were getting was sound practice.

:mrgreen:

Information overload is quite common! I looked for people who didn't bash other people and I looked for some kind of consensus over the person who was telling me what I wanted to hear. The horrible think is there is more than one way to skin a reef, so you'll have to go with what makes sense to you. Be patient, ask questions and take everything with a grain of salt!
 

jumpincactus

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Thank you Righty.

I will in setting up my system attempt to keep a ole bit of elderly wisdom in mind that is the KISS method........

What I do not want to do is anguish so long over details I let fear of doing the wrong thing keep me from ever getting started :) I am prone at this point with what I think I have learned thus far is to go with a Faux bed of argonite sand, a refugium/sump & a great skimmer with MH lighting.

I hope to seed the rock for at least 30 days before even adding any critters in a separate tank. From what I have seen and read this approach hopefully will serve my purposes.

Thank you all for the input.
 

hfmann

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Hi Jumping,

Welcome to reef keeping. YouÂ’ve certainly come to the right place to ask questions and join in the discussions about this fascinating hobby. The participants in these discussions often are quite passionate about their ideas and experience. In addition to the experts youÂ’ve already heard from, youÂ’ll see many of the authors and scientists even jump in here to help and lend their wisdom. One thing you find out quickly is that there are many, many opinions about how to go about creating and maintaining a thriving reef aquarium. And as Righty already indicated, opinions and methods change over time as more and more studies are done, and we all experience what seems to work for us and what doesnÂ’t.

As I study many of the “featured aquariums” I think “I want mine to look like that”. And then I find they all use different methods and spend varying amounts of time in maintaining their systems.

Eleven years ago, a local “fish guy” set up a reef aquarium for me using the modified Berlin method. I didn’t know much at all, but quickly became hooked, even obsessed at times. Since then, I’ve moved once, had my tank crash once (electric failure)and made numerous changes to equipment and strategies. Throughout it all the corals which I’m focusing on have thrived. During these eleven years, I’ve confess, I’ve strayed several times from keeping up on water changes, cleaning, and overall maintenance. But then someone’s tank pictures posted here inspire me to get back onto a strict maintenance schedule.

Bottom line, my advice (and IÂ’m certainly no expert), is to read everything you can get your hands on, ask all the questions you can, and donÂ’t be hesitant to make changes. I think youÂ’ll find most everyone is constantly experimenting and making changes to their systems.

ThatÂ’s probably more than you wanted to know, but I felt like writing a book today (lol).

Hal
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hfmann

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Righty,

Great points about the DSB taking up space we might rather give to other more attractive specimens.

I ditched my DSB because it got disturbed twice, and each time I
lost many animals.
Exactly what happened? What's the thinking about why disturbing the sand bed resulted in diaster? One of my original premises about having a DSB was that it was more like the real reef. I thought "it's got a real deep sand bed" so that should be good in mine too.

Hal
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I like my sand bed and plan to keep it.It is more of a MSB(Medium Sand Bed). I disturb parts of it on purpose from time to time. It needs a little stirring from time to time.
 
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hfmann":1ejyynp0 said:
Righty,

Great points about the DSB taking up space we might rather give to other more attractive specimens.

I ditched my DSB because it got disturbed twice, and each time I
lost many animals.
Exactly what happened? What's the thinking about why disturbing the sand bed resulted in diaster? One of my original premises about having a DSB was that it was more like the real reef. I thought "it's got a real deep sand bed" so that should be good in mine too.

Hal

Twice a powerhead fell and disturbed the sandbed. Much of my sps rtn'd. There is a thread about it somewhere on RDO :D .

It could have been caused by hydrogen sulfide release, phosphate release, or something else.

I don't buy the idea that a sandbed is like a real reef. Most corals are up above the sand on the reef, not directly one it like in our tanks. Also, the sand around reefs doesn't seem to be much like the sandbeds in tanks. The sandbeds in our tanks are more like lagoonal sandbeds.
:D
 
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pwj1286":qc5vt729 said:
Didn't a reef forum go to war over this issue?

Yep, and it was a shame. But that is no reason to not discuss it here. :D
 

pwj1286

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Of course! What's said and done is set in the past.



Didn't AvancedAquarist did a very extensive research behind this very issue? I believe they showed that there was no real evidence of any method being better than the other method. It was a very interesting article and should be brought up when questions arise about sand bed methods.

It's one of my favorite expirements!
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jumpincactus

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I just cant say how nice it is going to be having this site to refer to and fellowship with others who have the same passion. You all have been very kind.

Righty............ nice tank BTW you have done a great job. I can only hope that I will be as pleased with my setup as you must be with yours.

I am going to pick up my 120 this weekend and will make an assessment at that time concerning how I am going to set it up. As yet I have not seen the tank up close and only have a vague idea what the configuartion is at this point. I will keep posting as I take possession and will look forward to any advice as I am going to need a lot of guidance with this reef. As I have stated in other posts I have been away for many years and my first attempt was rushed, & under informed.

This is something I have been wondering a lot about........... How many of you folks have had good luck using VHO/T5 type setups in keeping healthy and "thriving" stony corals. Is it possible to achieve with lighting other than MH? I would love to hear from some of you guys that have had a good experience with lighting other than MH. Or is this a question I need to post in another section???
 

Len

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I've used just about all the lighting types out there :) MH is definitely your best bet. That said, VHO/T5/PC can be employed successfully as some people have done. The problem with these lighting options IME is they do not penetrate the water very well. With most fluorescent tanks, what you will usually see is that the light-demanding sps are on the top 1/2 to 1/3rd of the tank with LPS and soft corals near the bottom. That is my main dislike of fluorescent technology.
 

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