Closed Loop vs. Powerheads, the on-going battle

[smit1260]

I know this is usually a matter of preference but I visited a large tank with a closed loop system and decided to compare it with a powerhead system. The tank was 550 gallons with a closed loop Sequence Hammerhead pump. This flow rate after head pressure calculation was about 4,000 gph. There was tiny bubbles all over the tank, despite an elaborate baffle system. I began thinking about what it would take to replace this closed loop with powerheads.

4,000 gph / 230 gph (maxi-jet 900) equals about 17 maxi-jets at a cost of $290. Less then a Sequence Hammerhead, just the pump itself. Then you would also save on plumbing. I compared wattage and with the powerheads you would save about $150 a year in electricity!!!

The downside to the powerheads is that they add more heat. It would be comparable to adding a 150 watt heater. Which would probably raise the temp maybe 1-2 degrees in a 550 gallon tank.

The powerheads could be attached near the top and be just as intrusive as the 6 Sea Swirl return lines on this tank.

Also you would not have all the tiny bubbles, which I find annoying and the system would have been much quieter wiith powerheads.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the MAJOR downsize of the whole system is going to be the fact you have 17 little black powerheads all over the damn tank! If you're at the cost fact of using a Hammerhead for circulation then the "cost" factor probably isn't an issue for you anymore. Why MaxiJets though? I don't know why people love these things so much. How about a Seio pump? 620gph @ 8watts is quite energy efficient, or Tunze streams? Lots of power @ energy savings there as well.

As to the bubbles bit, that sounds like an issue with plumbing, because on a true closed loop that's plumbed correctly you should get zero bubbles. Things like bad joints on pvc, or an anti-siphon hole that's a bit above the surface of the water will add to bubbles.

 

[Len]

I think Maxijets are great for smaller tanks, but I would also go with Seio, Tunze, or Ecotech Vortechs. I know the latter two are pretty expensive, but they provide what I'd consider the ideal flow, much better then lots of powerheads or closed loops. If heat is an important critera for you, the Vortech is your best bet. If noise is the most important, the Tunze or Seios are better choices.

 

[Anonymous]

For my new tank I am going the big power head route. My last two tanks both had closed loops. I wanted an easy to set up tank with out all the plumbing head aches this time. Also, I ended up having to add a couple of power heads to my last two tanks due to poor planning anyway.

 

[smit1260]

I agree with the use of Seio, Tunze, or Ecotech Vortechs on larger tanks. I was just using maxijets to crunch the numbers. The electricity savings would be even greater and less heat added.

The way I do my powerheads, even if there were 17 they would vitually all not be visiable. Less visiable then 6 Sea Swirls.

So far 4 people have voted for closed loops but I haven't seen a single response that states why they prefer closed loops.

 

[Anonymous]

Tunze Streams provide allot of current. THe new nano Tunze's should be great as well.

I do not like the Seio's - Lasted 6 months

The maxijets are good for smaller tanks and I actually use on behind my rockwork to keep stuff from settling back there. ANother options for good flow in a powerhead form is a Hagen 802 (400GPH) but it has a strong velocity flow compared to the wide gentle flow of the Tunze Streams.

Closed loops can be good but IME/O you need to have good access to the back of the tank to do it right.
_________________
us economic recession

 

[Anonymous]

Ok pro-closed loop argument. Because you're simply moving piping you can snake and turn it to point the outlet where you want at any angle you want. Where as a powerhead you are limited to where you can mount it due to the physical size of the power head, limited by a power cord length sticking into the tank, limited by the angle you can aim it (best case scenario you can aim it 20-30 degrees up/down, worse case... you have to shoot straight out), finally there's not a bunch of inlets sucking water in that you have to worry about unclogging.

 

[Anonymous]

I like closed loops because they are easy to maintain, you can build a loc line return manifold so you can change your flow, and you don't have such an issue for maintenance as you do with power heads. The problem I see with 17 powerheads is determining when one isn't working and the pain of removing it to fix it.

Also, it sounds like the hammerhead was a return pump, not a CL. In a CL the in and the out of the pump go straight to the tank so there would be no baffles involved.

In my current tank I have a two closed loops, 2 maxijets (looking to add one more), and a Tunze. I like the flexibility of being able to turn things on and off.

 

[bleedingthought]

The way I do my powerheads, even if there were 17 they would vitually all not be visiable. Less visiable then 6 Sea Swirls.

How do you hide 17 PHs? I have a 4 foot tank and it really seems like hiding more than 5 would be hard. :?

 

[Anonymous]

I have a hammerhead running a closed loop and it works fine. It's far from a quiet pump however. I would consider Streams or ecotech units a good alternative- but 17 powerheads would suck. Not an option.

 

[Anonymous]

Not to mention having enough outlets for 17 PH!

That is a LOT of surge protecters...

 

[Anonymous]

I chose powerhead b/c I dont have any experience in any other. LOL

 

[smit1260]

Righty,

I am sure the hammerhead was a closed loop pump. The tank also had a return pump that must be causing all the bubbles. I also thought there was a process were powerful pumps could cause air bubbles (I think the name is cavitation maybe) even in a closed loop.

Bleeding Thought,

The powerheads could be hinden if they were used the unique way I do. I am putting together a tank that has the power heads barely visible. Pictures will be up next week. The 17 maxijet powerheads were just an example for statistics, but my same arguement can be made even stronger with the larger powerheads that Len suggested.

 

[bleedingthought]

Smit1260, I'd like to see some pics so I can take some notes! :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I chose a CL (Iwaki 40) for my 100 gallon, because of heat, simplicity, and a cleaner look in the tank.

In general, I think CLs are good for keeping it simple, without having too many extra devices in the tank to add heat, less clutter, and fewer machines with potential for malfunctions.

 

[Meloco14]

Has anyone tried the Wavy Sea things yet?

 

[Anonymous]

Righty,

I am sure the hammerhead was a closed loop pump. The tank also had a return pump that must be causing all the bubbles. I also thought there was a process were powerful pumps could cause air bubbles (I think the name is cavitation maybe) even in a closed loop.

Yep cavitation. I think though that most cases that are blamed on cavitation are caused by something else, and cavitation is pretty easy to avoid with proper plumbing.

 

[Rob Top]

My 220 will have a closed loop with a dart on it.
Bubbles... as mentioned poor plumbing
Flexiblity... for sure with CL there is more
But the maintance is the big one for me. Be it 17 or 5 power heads that is a lot to deal with. I know you have this way of hiding them, how easily are they accessed once hidden? I think if anything in a tank will fail, it's a power head for sure. They will get cloged with a pcs of something, jam and burn up. Impellers brake, the heat generated... Lots can go wrong. Also I think that sea swirls are loosing favor to the OM. Lots of options the SS doesn't have, plus easier to hide the out put then with the SS. Unless you are using the revolution, then in that case it is really no differant than the SS