How high nitrates?
- Thread starter Rlumenator
- Start date
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
I just looked at all the answers now- and I don't see one answer to my original question of how high a level of nitrates?????????? I do feed my tank, and therefore have trouble controlling it, therefore the question. Give me some safe numbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I kinda did in the post just above.
With no corals keep it below 20ppm.
With corals keep it below 10ppm.
0ppm is the ideal range.
Try doing bi weekly water changes. If the nitrates stay too high do them weekly. If still a little high increase the amount of water changes.
IE: If doing 10% and no changes that are satisfactory then do 20%.
With no corals keep it below 20ppm.
With corals keep it below 10ppm.
0ppm is the ideal range.
Try doing bi weekly water changes. If the nitrates stay too high do them weekly. If still a little high increase the amount of water changes.
IE: If doing 10% and no changes that are satisfactory then do 20%.
I actually think nitrates are fairly harmless. I've had NO3 as high as 60 without algae or problems, and this is for a tank that lasted 10 years. I don't know what the maximum I'd consider "safe," but more then likely, if it peaks over 60 or 70, I'd do a water change myself.
Ya thats why I said recommended. Seems like fish are tougher than we think sometimes.
Looking back on what I used to do to my convicts and oscars..lmao its shameful. Especially the oscars. Everyday food was : Hotdogs,pizza,small rats,small snakes,large lizzards and grasshoppers, variuos feeder fish like guppys, beetles, leftovers from whatever we had for dinner, chicken bones, the list goes on.
Sometimes I wonder if people wind up doing more harm than good trying to keep eveything within the "right" range of numbers.
Looking back on what I used to do to my convicts and oscars..lmao its shameful. Especially the oscars. Everyday food was : Hotdogs,pizza,small rats,small snakes,large lizzards and grasshoppers, variuos feeder fish like guppys, beetles, leftovers from whatever we had for dinner, chicken bones, the list goes on.
Sometimes I wonder if people wind up doing more harm than good trying to keep eveything within the "right" range of numbers.
Hers another way to "test".
Look through the ends of the tank,not the front. Is the water crysstal clear or does it have a milkish/yellowish/greenish tinge?
Do they fish look happy? Are the weeds taking over or are there just a few?
If clear water and the fish are happy and the weeds in check, no water change.
If the water aint clear and the weeds look like they are about to eat the fish, then water change.
Main thing is dont stress out about it as long as the fish are fat and happy.
Look through the ends of the tank,not the front. Is the water crysstal clear or does it have a milkish/yellowish/greenish tinge?
Do they fish look happy? Are the weeds taking over or are there just a few?
If clear water and the fish are happy and the weeds in check, no water change.
If the water aint clear and the weeds look like they are about to eat the fish, then water change.
Main thing is dont stress out about it as long as the fish are fat and happy.
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
The tank is 3 yrs old- 160 with soft coral,sps,lps. Fish: (6) chromis- 2 are quite large, (3) firefish, small chevron, lawnmower blenny, scooter dragonet, (2) good sized cleaner shrimp, Hectori goby, white ray goby with pistol shrimp, small false percula, red serpent star, (3) sand sifters, a few hermits and snails. I am adding a hippo tang. Algae is a problem, I use a toothbrush attached to pvc every week to keep the tank looking good. I have been doing a 20% water chg. about every week and a half, as the nitrates hover around 15, then sometimes up to 20. Everyone looks good, and is well expanded. julian Sprung's vol. 3 speaks to higher nitrates not being bad, and to feed the aquarium- but, that is just one educated opinion. Am I ok here with the nitrates where they are? Once upon a time I did have close to 0 nitrates. Are there any products useful (that work)for removal? Denitrate, etc.??
First of all, Nitrates can easily be compared to smog. It will not kill you but you might not feel at ease when present in the air you breathe. If the smog reaches a high level, then some weaker/more sensitive individuals will die. Higher levels will eventually wipe out the planet. Enough comparisaon.
If you have a deep sand bed, and you have sand stirrers, you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot here. A deep sand bed (DSB) will denitrify ie. remove Nitrates with bacteria that live at the bottom of the DSB. Those bacteria are anaerobic ie. that they do not require oxygen to live. Actually, if oxygen is present, they will not develop. Your sand stirrers are introducing oxygen in the DSB and therefore are detrimental to the bacteria colony that lives there. This is one part of the explanation.
Exporting the Nitrates is another way to get rid of them. Exporting is just a fancy term to say that some Nitrate feeding organism is present in the system, therefore removing them. Caulerpa and other marco-algae that are usually grown in a sump will do that for you. They will feed off on the Nitratre and will grow. Another benefit that comes with the growing of macro algae is that a bunch of other life forms will be growing all around it. On the other hand, Caulerpa algae needs to be lit 24/7 in order to keep it from going sexual. If you do not, it will not kill the algae but your tank water will turn yellowish and you might not like it at all. If left alone, the Caulerpa will probably grow all over your sump. So you snip, from time to time, some of it and... yes, feed it to your fish! If you have too much, just trash the snips you've cut out. Your tang will most likely love it just to name that one. That process is often refered to as "exporting nutrients". Of course, since the Caulerpa will feed on most of the Nitrate present, your tank should have less problem with algae growth ie. brown algae (diatoms) and/or hair algae. Now, don't get me wrong here. Caulerpa is not the final and definite answer to all your problems. It is merely one mean amongst others to keep Nitrates down.
The protein skimmer is another one. The reason why it is so beneficial to a marine tank is that it takes protein, organic matter and removes it from the water BEFORE it has the chance to enter the nitrogen cycle, therefore, bypassing the Nitrate production. So, a skimmer is like that famous card in the monopoly game : Do not pass GO, do not collect $200 and go directly to jail!!!
Now, I know what you mean by "I want NUMBERS!". Been researching that myself because I'm a complete newbie in the SW husbandry and I've only had a SW tank since Dec 2005. Now, you know as well as I do that all fish are not created equal under "water" (pun intended). Some are more hardy than others. I found that several fish will tolerate 40ppm of Nitrates without a problem. Most fish, NOT ALL, will do fine with 20ppm. Like it was said, 0 Nitrates is THE target. As far as corals are concerned, small polyp stony corals (SPS) will do fine with 20ppm and under. Forget it with Large polyp stony corals (LPS) or clams. They demand pristine water conditions. Oh, you may buy some and they will live for a few months, but will decay and eventually die. Mushrooms and tube worms, like Feather Dusters, will do fine with 20ppm.
Like I said in this thread already, an aquarium is a dynamic enviroment and therefore, it requires patience. Adding a bunch of fish or corals all at once will throw your water parameters out of wack for sure. Don't forget that corals are living animals (if you will) and should be treated as a fish when considering addding one specimen to your tank. So patience is the key here. You have to let your bacterial colony time to asjust to the new bioload that was added. Once that's done, you can add another specimen.
I'm sorry for that long winded post but I hope I have been able to shed some light on the subject. If you keep only one thing out of this post, please let it be that PATIENCE is the key to success.
HTH a bit.
If you have a deep sand bed, and you have sand stirrers, you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot here. A deep sand bed (DSB) will denitrify ie. remove Nitrates with bacteria that live at the bottom of the DSB. Those bacteria are anaerobic ie. that they do not require oxygen to live. Actually, if oxygen is present, they will not develop. Your sand stirrers are introducing oxygen in the DSB and therefore are detrimental to the bacteria colony that lives there. This is one part of the explanation.
Exporting the Nitrates is another way to get rid of them. Exporting is just a fancy term to say that some Nitrate feeding organism is present in the system, therefore removing them. Caulerpa and other marco-algae that are usually grown in a sump will do that for you. They will feed off on the Nitratre and will grow. Another benefit that comes with the growing of macro algae is that a bunch of other life forms will be growing all around it. On the other hand, Caulerpa algae needs to be lit 24/7 in order to keep it from going sexual. If you do not, it will not kill the algae but your tank water will turn yellowish and you might not like it at all. If left alone, the Caulerpa will probably grow all over your sump. So you snip, from time to time, some of it and... yes, feed it to your fish! If you have too much, just trash the snips you've cut out. Your tang will most likely love it just to name that one. That process is often refered to as "exporting nutrients". Of course, since the Caulerpa will feed on most of the Nitrate present, your tank should have less problem with algae growth ie. brown algae (diatoms) and/or hair algae. Now, don't get me wrong here. Caulerpa is not the final and definite answer to all your problems. It is merely one mean amongst others to keep Nitrates down.
The protein skimmer is another one. The reason why it is so beneficial to a marine tank is that it takes protein, organic matter and removes it from the water BEFORE it has the chance to enter the nitrogen cycle, therefore, bypassing the Nitrate production. So, a skimmer is like that famous card in the monopoly game : Do not pass GO, do not collect $200 and go directly to jail!!!
Now, I know what you mean by "I want NUMBERS!". Been researching that myself because I'm a complete newbie in the SW husbandry and I've only had a SW tank since Dec 2005. Now, you know as well as I do that all fish are not created equal under "water" (pun intended). Some are more hardy than others. I found that several fish will tolerate 40ppm of Nitrates without a problem. Most fish, NOT ALL, will do fine with 20ppm. Like it was said, 0 Nitrates is THE target. As far as corals are concerned, small polyp stony corals (SPS) will do fine with 20ppm and under. Forget it with Large polyp stony corals (LPS) or clams. They demand pristine water conditions. Oh, you may buy some and they will live for a few months, but will decay and eventually die. Mushrooms and tube worms, like Feather Dusters, will do fine with 20ppm.
Like I said in this thread already, an aquarium is a dynamic enviroment and therefore, it requires patience. Adding a bunch of fish or corals all at once will throw your water parameters out of wack for sure. Don't forget that corals are living animals (if you will) and should be treated as a fish when considering addding one specimen to your tank. So patience is the key here. You have to let your bacterial colony time to asjust to the new bioload that was added. Once that's done, you can add another specimen.
I'm sorry for that long winded post but I hope I have been able to shed some light on the subject. If you keep only one thing out of this post, please let it be that PATIENCE is the key to success.
HTH a bit.
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
I don't have a deep sand bed- lsp and clam just keep g r o w i n g - some ,like the clam have lived here over 2 1/2 yrs. I have had the tank for 3 years, so obviously the fish and corals weren't just added. if I had room for a refuge I would. Of course I have a skimmer. The nitrates have gone up over the past year due to additions. If the 15-20 nitrates are ok, I will stay with the present water chge scedule. Anyone have answers to the question I asked above? Thank you, Dawn.
Dawn, Ill answer your first and last question for you. NO.
I have just read this whole thread and feel that it is very informative regarding several things. There is no magic number "say 72" where everything will die. Everyone tanks are different. All fish and inverts are different. Sound to me like you have a system that works, if your fish etc all look and act healthy why change any thing? If algea is the big problem . Try to cut back on feeding or increase your flow. Maybe even cut your lighting back by a couple hours a day. Or a combination of the three. to let you fish and cleaner crew catch up. Maybe double the size your clean up crew. Or a combination of above Sorry no one could give you the answer you wanted to hear.
I have just read this whole thread and feel that it is very informative regarding several things. There is no magic number "say 72" where everything will die. Everyone tanks are different. All fish and inverts are different. Sound to me like you have a system that works, if your fish etc all look and act healthy why change any thing? If algea is the big problem . Try to cut back on feeding or increase your flow. Maybe even cut your lighting back by a couple hours a day. Or a combination of the three. to let you fish and cleaner crew catch up. Maybe double the size your clean up crew. Or a combination of above Sorry no one could give you the answer you wanted to hear.
You are welcome. (Assuming here that you are thankful for the reply I posted for YOU and the time it took me to write it.)Dawn":5x6lhsvn said:
As for your initial question, if you would have read carefully all the answers that were given to you, including mine, you would have understood that there is no defined figure. It all depends on what you have in your tank, how it is doing, if you added something new, is your system adjusting well on it's own, etc, etc... In the above reply, you say your Nitrates have gone up because of additions. Well, that's very unfortunate. 15 to 20ppm of Nitrates for LPS and Clams is NOT acceptable in the long run.
Since you are satisfied, it seems, with the answer 15 to 20ppm is acceptable, why are you asking again for more figures? Looks like you have already made up your mind and are looking for a miracle solution or some sort of "fail safe" figure of Nitrate level. That answer was already given to you : 0ppm
Kind regards,
trido88":m7r2iyvz said:
Dawn:
I believe that tirdo88 has hit the nail on the head. There simply is no magic number for nitrates. After all they are nutrients to the plant life even in our corals and clams. By contrast phosphates are know to interfer with the skeleton formation in corals, and clam shells and so on.
But nitrates to reflect that whatever is happening in the tank is not fully consuming nitrates. And along with nitrates come trace elements like copper and others that can be at toxic levels. When nitrates are not being fully consumed those toxic trace elements my not be fully bioaccumulated and exported from the system.
So nitrates can be an indicator or other things that are very detrimental. But your system seems to be doing fine.
FWIW Some add nitrates and only nitrates to help do things like reduce cyano bacteria. The difference there is the nitrates are added without the toxic trace elements that tag along with nitrates generated from the bioload.
So I look at nitrates as being more an indictor of possible problems but not the real concern. But still I keep them at 0.
- Location
- Cape Coral, Florida
trido88- thank you! regards, Dawn.
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