wet dry and ultra clear

[reedlog]

I am currently running a magnum canister filter and an aquaclear HOB on my 75gal, but want to get rid of the canister and replace with a wet dry. I am a little nervous about setting up the wet dry, as I know someone who had to replace their carpet 1 day after setting one up (I assume inappropriately), so my first question is does anyone have any suggestions or helpful hints before I begin trying to learn how to set it up on my own?

My next question is.. my LFS suggested some stuff called "ultra clear" which I am having trouble finding much out about online. Although my tank is already established and everything is healthy, the lfs suggested to leave my canister running for about a month and add some of this ultra clear as a supplement to help the wet/dry obtain its biological filtration and cycle before removing the canister. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with the product and/or suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[ChrisRD]

Is this a reef tank or fish-only?
Any live rock in the system?

 

[reedlog]

live rock, and very little bit of inverts...
a bubble tip annenome, an urchin, some leather coral
and fish- goby, yellow tang, clarkii clown, koran angel, couple damsels, and a snowflake eel

 

[Sponge_Bob]

live rock, and very little bit of inverts...
a bubble tip annenome, an urchin, some leather coral
and fish- goby, yellow tang, clarkii clown, koran angel, couple damsels, and a snowflake eel

Wet-Dry filter = Nitrate production machine = problems.

Skimmer + Live rock + DSB(optional) = no problem.

Sell the cannister filter and buy yourself a nice coral with the money. Keep the HOB to run carbon or poly wool if/when needed.

 

[Anonymous]

I am currently running a magnum canister filter and an aquaclear HOB on my 75gal, but want to get rid of the canister and replace with a wet dry. I am a little nervous about setting up the wet dry, as I know someone who had to replace their carpet 1 day after setting one up (I assume inappropriately), so my first question is does anyone have any suggestions or helpful hints before I begin trying to learn how to set it up on my own?

I had a magnum 350 and a tetra tech pf 350 (i think) on my 55g. In about a year I replaced both with a DIY sump/filter/refug. The sump is just a $5 15g plastic container. The filter box I made from plexiglass cut at home depot to my specs. I use crushed oyster shells (~$5/40#) as filter media which also helps buffer calcium. It is powered by a mag 5 pump for 5x water flow and the HOB overflow/surface skimmer cost around $80 or so. Anytime you pump water from one open container to another there is the possibility of floods. I had three before I got the levels in both the display and sump correct.

The filter box is effective yet noisy. Running water sound as the water flows into the filter box.

I have since added an in tank refugium which (finally) got nitrates down to 0. And when I recently measured phosphates they were 0 also.

To me the whole nitrate generator/trap points are misplaced. The tank should be a nitrate generator so as long as the nitrates are being recycled into fish food (various algaes) that is fine.

One thing I have been thinking about but not tried is a closed loop, diy fluidized bed filter. That should provide the same effects as my current system with less noise and flooding possibilities.

You could ask in the diy forum or if you need more specifics on the sump setup pm me.

My next question is.. my LFS suggested some stuff called "ultra clear" which I am having trouble finding much out about online. Although my tank is already established and everything is healthy, the lfs suggested to leave my canister running for about a month and add some of this ultra clear as a supplement to help the wet/dry obtain its biological filtration and cycle before removing the canister. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with the product and/or suggestions?

Thanks!

I do not like or use additives. There should be no need in the above situation. Especially those additives designed to clear up cloudy tanks.

HTH and just my .02

 

[ChrisRD]

Personally I would pass on the wet/dry and look into a skimmer.

 

[Anonymous]

IMO your quickest improvment for the tank would be to ditch the aquaclear and get a good HOB skimmer. If it were me I woul pull the media out of the canister filter and use it for circulation and for the times when you need/want to run carbon. I would guess your tank is not drilled for a sump? This would mean you would have to use a HOB prefilter box. I have never used them. I have head a few stories of them loosing syphon after a power outage and flooding the floor.

I would skip the ulta clear. Most stuff in a bottle is not worth what you pay for it.

 

[reedlog]

So I am definitley learning, and thanks for all the responses, but this loosing syphon and flooding REALLY scares me.. does anyone have a HOB prefilter and could advise me on how to avoid this from happening?

Thanks again for all the help

 

[Sponge_Bob]

So I am definitley learning, and thanks for all the responses, but this loosing syphon and flooding REALLY scares me.. does anyone have a HOB prefilter and could advise me on how to avoid this from happening?
Thanks again for all the help

Are you talking about setting up a sump and using a HOB as an overflow box? If so, that's one wonderful way of flodding your place.

Please precise your intentions in DETAILS.

 

[reedlog]

sorry if I am not precise enough, I will be honest that I am new to the idea of a wet/dry filter...
I thought that the pre-filter is what hangs on the back which is the overflow, and the sump is the wet/dry container that sits below, hopefully that may help?

 

[Sponge_Bob]

sorry if I am not precise enough, I will be honest that I am new to the idea of a wet/dry filter...
I thought that the pre-filter is what hangs on the back which is the overflow, and the sump is the wet/dry container that sits below, hopefully that may help?

No need to be sorry. All is clear now and it's only normal that being new to the hobby, you are not yet familiar with all those fancy words and abbreviations. I get confused myself on some post wondering that the hell they are talking about. So, no worries.

That being said, you want a sump. Cool. A sump will help you create flow and bring in oxygen in your tank, hide some of the equipment, like heaters, hob filters, skimmer and what not. In other words, a sump is a good thing to have. But, it has its dangers like you pointed out.

First, let's go through the equipment needed.

- A tank of some sort... plastic, acrylic, old aquarium will do fine
- An overflow box that will take the water from the tank down to the sump
- A pump that will take the water from the sump and return it to the tank.

Now, some general rules to avoid a flood. WARNING : Some of these might sound rather abvious to you but I have to mention them for some people have overlooked them in the past in had a flooding on their hand!

- Your overflow box should have a fail-safe device to prevent losing syphon during operation and/or during a power outage.
- Your sump should be able to receive all the water from the overflow box without the return pump running.
- Your overflow box should be equiped with an air outlet so that a powerhead with a venturi can be connected to it, sucking all the air from the overflow box, thus preventing the loss of the syphon and/or quickly reinitiate the syphon if a power outage occur.
- Your return pump should not pump more water in than your overflow box can take out.

Right now, I do not have time to explain all the above. But tomorrow, I shall return with more details and drawings on how to design your sump, how to assure that you won't flood your place and so on.

Kind regards,

 

[Anonymous]

First of all I think it is really good you have that concern.

Let me try to simplify.

The bottom container pumps water to the top. Above a certain level the water"overflows" the top and gravity returns that water to the bottom. short and sweet both containers must have enough space for any water from the other, should something fail. Both should start "sucking" air before the other floods.

Then you should always make sure you maintain those levels. With the biggest tempation being adding too much water so the bottom level is too high.

Sounds confusing, long winded i know. But once you get it set up and tested it should be ok.

HTH

 

[reedlog]

wow, thank you everyone for all of the responses and the help
I now have the wet/dry set up.. and I am glad to see that when I shut off the pump the syphon seems to stop, which I am still sort of scratching my head wondering how that manages to work. But, My god the pump is loud, any suggestions for quieting it down?

 

[Anonymous]

FM


Pm if you want to know.

Glad it is working. Now test for what happens when the overflow is blocked and the pump is still pumping. I presume normal operation resulted when you turned the pump back on.

Try putting pump in some sort of "isolator" like a rubber pad or towels or paper crunbled up.

 

[Anonymous]

Please don't put your pump on a towel or paper. A rubber pad would work fine.

I second the advise given above about getting a skimmer when you get the chance.

 

[Sponge_Bob]

I join my voice to the others to say that a skimmer is mandatory. It's the most valuable piece of equipment to have in a marine tank. You can run without any filtration whatsoever as long as you have enough Live Rock and a good skimmer.

Glad you have the sump worked out with the little information given. Please do a test with the power completly off for at least 10 min and then turn it back on. I suggest that just to make sure that your system is not syphoning during the power outage or even worst, that your syphon is lost after a while. It happened to me upon a test one day and realised early enough that I was setup to have a major flood on my hands (floor) if a power outage occured. Check the sump level and the tank level during the simulated power outage. If everything is fine and it doesn't rise or fall, then you are ok. If not, please come back here ASAP and tell us what is happening exactly. We will provide you with a solution.

BTW... sponges work great to dampen the noise of a pump. Simply rest your pump on some old or new Fluval sponge media... Of course, rubber will also do the trick if you can get your hands on some easily.

 

[reedlog]

I will definitley try a buffer like a sponge or rubber when I get home from work, thanks for all the suggestions!

so spongebob.. I will try and kill the power to the pump for a longer period of time and see what happens, but my question is, you said to

"make sure that your system is not syphoning during the power outage or even worst, that your syphon is lost after a while."

I thought that you did not want it to syphon when the power was out, which I was happy to see last night it stopped when I unplugged the pump. But you say you do not want to lose the sypon after a while? ( I assume you mean the pressure of the water in the tube but not actually moving water, is this correct?) this may be a stupid question, but what is the result if this happens? wont you just not have the advantage of it continuing when the power comes back on resulting in a burnt out pump?

thanks everyone for your patience with me and my questions that are probably common sense...[/quote]

 

[Sponge_Bob]

I will definitley try a buffer like a sponge or rubber when I get home from work, thanks for all the suggestions!

so spongebob.. I will try and kill the power to the pump for a longer period of time and see what happens, but my question is, you said to

"make sure that your system is not syphoning during the power outage or even worst, that your syphon is lost after a while."

I thought that you did not want it to syphon when the power was out, which I was happy to see last night it stopped when I unplugged the pump. But you say you do not want to lose the sypon after a while? ( I assume you mean the pressure of the water in the tube but not actually moving water, is this correct?) this may be a stupid question, but what is the result if this happens? wont you just not have the advantage of it continuing when the power comes back on resulting in a burnt out pump?

thanks everyone for your patience with me and my questions that are probably common sense...

Usually, on an overflow box, you have some sort of small air outlet to let the bubbles out or to plug an air hose connected to a powerhead that has a venturi on it. The main reason for this is the following :

- If you do not have an air outlet on your overflow box, whether it uses tubes or no tubes, you may lose the syphon wiht or without electrical power. This is caused by air that gets trapped at the top of the overflow tube or channel, depending on the model you have.

- If your air outlet is connected to a powerhead and is located in the main tank, you may slowly drain your tank by that small air hose into the sump, thus overflowing your sump, thus a major mess! You can prevent such a back syphon with a check-valve but the usage of a check-valve requires much more power to effeciently remove all the air trpped in the tubes/channel.

- However, if your powerhead is located in the sump, than no check-valve is needed and no syphon will occur. This is the safest way to go in my experience/opinion.

Depending on the model of overflow box you use, during a power outage, you may lose syphon. That's why it is important that you have the means to re-initiate the syphon as soon as the power comes back. A powerhead with a venturi linked by an air hose to the air outlet of the box will assure that you get you syphon back, whether you lose it or not. It will also assure a constant syphon during normal operation for it will draw any air bubbles that may accumulate in the tube/channel which could lead to a loss of syphon.

That's why I asked you to check your system during a good 5 to 10 mins and see what happens. With the information above, you have all that you need to set it up in a way that will make it almost 100% fail safe. But, nothing is 100% sure in this world, so... but with this setup, you put all the chances in your favor.

Anymore questions... feel free to ask. Always a pleasure to be of some help! Cheers and happy reefing!!!

 

[Anonymous]

wow, thank you everyone for all of the responses and the help
I now have the wet/dry set up.. and I am glad to see that when I shut off the pump the syphon seems to stop, which I am still sort of scratching my head wondering how that manages to work. But, My god the pump is loud, any suggestions for quieting it down?

Is it in the sump or out. IF out of the sump the towel will work if not somthing that can get wet like a rubber pad.

In addition to checking the overflow make sure you check that your return lines are not syphoning. A good saftey is to drill a 3/16" hole in the return just under the normal operating water level of your tank. Others use a check valve, but they need to be taken out of the line once and a while to be serveced. With the hole you just need to make sure it is clean.

 

[reedlog]

for starters, the pump is underwater, inside the sump/filter

and the pump has a return 3/4in tube with a return plastic opening/blower that does have a hole in it to prevent from back syphoning back into the filter.

When I turned it off last night it did not return water back into the sump, still going to test it again tonight