I need help inderstanding something about LFS???

[shavo]

just a general question no reef question, I am having a hard time understanding why everybody is in such support of the local fish store. I used to work at one for years and saw the mark ups on fish which was rediculious. I see posts on here to support them and I have to say I see why people spend so much money on this hobby.

quick break down on some things I did online

lighting at LFS= $1000-$1800 online $500

filter at LFS=$399 online $175

UV sterilizer=$160 online$50

I do understand supporting the LFS, and I actually want to be in this business in the future but I know I am being completely ripped off most of the time.
I can understand looking at a fish before purchasing or any other item for that matter but I feel the opportunities for quality items at a decent price is better than supporting the LFS.
help me understand this. sorry to any LFS owner who reads this. I am just curious why people want to spend the extra money to get the same product.
thanks for your time

 

[trido]

I also like to save money and have ordered quite a few things online myself. I like to support my LFS because I am all for small business. I am tired of corporate america which is impersonal and most employees dont have a clue even if you can even get someone to help.. ie: Home Depot, Lowes., Pet Smart, Petco to name a few.
I like to have the ability to see my products before i buy.
I like the idea that in case of an emergency I can run down to my LFS and get what I need imediately instead of waiting three days for UPS.
I dont want to buy my frozen fishfood or DT's online or at Petsmart.
Sometimes I like to impulse buy and cant do that on the internet.
There are no pretty girls on the way to the internet (well, except my wife).
I like to get opinions from LFS employees when I'm buying new products. Sometimes you guys dont respond quick enough.
Thats all I can think of right now.

 

[shavo]

good points except for a few discrepencies, I believe you can impulse buy on the internet, infact my whole salt set up was a drunken impulse throw caution to the wind big impulse buy, and there are pleny of pretty girls on the internet! lol
great points and I agree with you. just on big items I have not had a bad expirience with online purchases

 

[trido]

Agreed. The internet also has more to choose from regarding skimmers and lighting. I'd bet I would have paid more for my 120 online. I would have had to special order it from petco. I have joint bank account with wifey and impulse buys online dont fly. The pretty coral I have been dreaming of can be made out to be an impulse buy if I bring her with to simply buy some carbon. Thats called a premeditated impulse buy.


Also, unless I am buying alot at once. Shipping costs on small items can equal what I would pay to LFS. I would rather give the money to them than Bigger shipping company so they can stay in business too. I agree that the internet is great and I use it alot. I also try to have a balance in my buying so I can keep local mom and pops business in action to.

 

[shavo]

agreed,
one thing I have watched my LFS become the corporate machine you reference and the people they hire aren't exactly the best salt people around and I listen to them talk and tell people things then after they leave them I talk to them and tell them defenites that I know that contradicts exactly what they told somebody that I know is right.

my LFS is pets plus and they have a website and used to be one location now they have like 9 locations.
I live in the philly area and I can say if anybody who knows lives here agter the hidden reef burned down. I can't wait for the grand reopening

if you want to see the inside of a burned out fish store go to the website pictures of the inside after the fire are posted

www.thehiddenreef.com

good luck in all you do
peace out homey!!

shavs

 

[dnorton1978]

Shavo,

I agree with Trido on supporting small business owners as well. Yes the prices are usaully higher, but the right LFS can give you great service. For example, whenever I buy a fish, my LFS will hold it for me for a week or so. That way when I do get it home I am less likely to have issues. To me that is worth paying a little more for.


As for online, yes the prices are better, and some companies are easy to talk with, but is still not as personal. I like to look someone in the eyes when I talk, and read them. I do buy pumps, powerheads and stuff online, but livestock would always be a no for me.

Perhaps I am just lucky, but LFS owner lives close to me, and would gladly come over to the house and help me when I have a problem. Again, I dont mind paying more for a good service.

Do you tip the waitress better at Denny's restaurant, or at Ruth Criss???

 

[Anonymous]

Over Head.

 

[Anonymous]

.....but I know I am being completely ripped off most of the time....

I think this comment is what burns me up the most. Since you want to be in the business in the future, here's a little word you better familiarize with before you get started. OVERHEAD.

You're trying to compare apples to oranges. You can't expect a store, that has rent, electricity, water bills, wages, social sec, workmans comp, etc etc etc to compete with an online store that is a one person show that is drop shipping to their customers. Your local store has to actually have physcial possession of the items you want to buy. They take up valuable space.

Even if the online place isn't dropshipping. Do they need a storefront in an excellent location? Are they paying top dollar for prime real estate? Of course not. They are renting an industrial space for pennies on the dollar against a strip mall or 1K square foot space on a busy street.

There's just so many factors it's not even worth going into. Most of the time it's just wasted energy.

But, I really doubt the owner of the store near you is living high on hog of your back. I guarantee that the store owner is just eeking out a living like most of us, despite your knowing you're getting ripped off.

I suggest moving this to the industry forum. I can pretty much guarantee you'll get a lot of responses there. Perhaps they can help you understand better.

 

[shavo]

hey I am just calling it for what it is. The prices of merchandise are cheaper online. Why are you getting burned up it is just a simple discussion, not an argument. I was just curious. thanks for the input though.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not burned up by a simple discussion. We can discuss all you want. But I won't discuss if you refuse to listen. I said that that particular comment burns me up the most. And I already explained. So, like I said, and you've just proven, it's not really worth getting into because it's just wasted energy.

You obviously believe that the LFS setup up shop next to you with nothing more in mind than to "rip you off" and it doesn't matter what anyone says, you're not going to change your mind.

It's a shame. I think LFS owners should really work hard and educate themselves when it comes to their suppliers. They would fare much better paying online retail prices than their "discounted" prices they get from the bigger pet supply regional wholesalers. What are you supposed to charge when the online store is charging less RETAIL than you're supplier is charging you WHOLESALE?

 

[Anonymous]

Did you see the owner of a LFS driving around in a Ferrari? Do they live in mansions? No probably not, it's because regardless of their "exorbitant" prices they aren't making that much profit. Online etailers have some advantages over LFS that just can not be countered.

1) LFS pay rent for the store they're at. Now you might say ok but the online stores need to have their goods someplace, yes that's true, but that someplace can be a warehouse in the middle of bumf* Missouri or something where you can buy an acre of land for 14 cents. The LFS usually needs to place themselves in a commercial district that gets a decent amount of traffic, which tends to be a bit more pricy per square foot. Plus as an online store is starting they literally can operate out of their residence, they don't need to keep a full store of goods since they can ship directly from the manufacturer. If you went into a LFS and didn't see what you wanted you'd leave. Plus you need to be able to walk around a LFS, an online place simply needs to be able to retrieve the items they sell, so they don't have to be as athetically comfortable for customer (ie not as efficient storing of goods)

2) Customers, LFS have a customer base that's based off peoples willingness to drive to their store. And online store does not have that limitation,t hey literally have the customer base of the entire world (or wherever FedEx is willing to ship). This makes a huge difference in the amount of customers you have, as a result the amount of revinue you bring in. So its no doubt that you have cheaper prices because you can afford to make a smaller profit margin per item sold.

3) Advertising. How many times have you seen an advertisement for a local fish place? Probably not very often unless they are a bigger superstore (Petsmart, Petco), online places can buy adspace online where people tend to look for much cheaper than one could in the "real world", this leads to point 2, more customers.

4) Competition, how many LFS do you have in your area? Probably not a whole lot. Before stores competed with other stores in the area. Now they compete with stores all over the country. So when customers buy online goods, the store has to deal with the fiancial impact of that one less (or in many cases, Lots of less) customers, so that doesn't exactly help them lower prices either.

Overall I get what you're saying that LFS tend to have much higher prices, but there's a larger dynamic of it than the LFS trying to "rip off" customers. It's like saying your local Mom & Pop speciality store is "ripping you off" because their prices are quite a bit higher than walmart.

But hey, I'll buy goods online too, so don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the online places

 

[trido]

Since the subject of the thread has now changed. I'll just throw in my two pennies by saying. For the most part, There is no such thing as a get rich quick scheme in the world of work and honest business. If LFS were ripping all of us off and making so much money, there would definately be alot more of them.

 

[Anonymous]

just a general question no reef question, I am having a hard time understanding why everybody is in such support of the local fish store. I used to work at one for years and saw the mark ups on fish which was rediculious. I see posts on here to support them and I have to say I see why people spend so much money on this hobby.

quick break down on some things I did online

lighting at LFS= $1000-$1800 online $500

filter at LFS=$399 online $175

UV sterilizer=$160 online$50

I do understand supporting the LFS, and I actually want to be in this business in the future but I know I am being completely ripped off most of the time.
I can understand looking at a fish before purchasing or any other item for that matter but I feel the opportunities for quality items at a decent price is better than supporting the LFS.
help me understand this. sorry to any LFS owner who reads this. I am just curious why people want to spend the extra money to get the same product.
thanks for your time

How much is the lfs time worth? Did you forget how many hours you've spent talking to the ppl who work there? They don't charge a fee for answering questions and most don't charge a fee for doing water tests and the good ones don't charge a fee for a loaner pump either.

 

[Anonymous]

Let's not forget the instant gratifcation of walking out with your purchase immediately. Nor being able to go there on a saturday and get what you need or have an emergency and having access to what you need right away.

I just went and checked one of the regional wholesalers for a price. A 72" Current USA Sunpod sell there....WHOLESALE for $811.50. That same unit sells at an online store for less than $800 RETAIL.

That LFS just bought that light for more than you can find it for online and he still has to mark it up to make a profit after overhead (remember, most stores are setup as a for profit venture despite what many customers want to believe). How has he ripped you off?

 

[Anonymous]

Since the subject of the thread has now changed.

Just how has the subject changed? He asked and he's gotten plent of good answers.

Nor being able to go there on a saturday and get what you need or have an emergency and having access to what you need right away.

Ha, got ya beat. I can go on Sunday 8O

 

[pwj1286]

At the LFS that I work, we have some of the cheapest items in town. Granted you do pay a little more once they factor shipping in, but some items bought in large bulk shipments, for example, BlueLine 70 pump, was 260 at the LFS that I work at, and on Marinedepot, its 250.

It really depends where you shop at. We have really good prices, because we get alot of buisness and we stay really competitive.

Part of the added price is how long I will talk to you and work with you to get the right items that you want. Customers take up alot of time when I could be doing my LFS chore list.

There is alot to do at a LFS and people who just talk about what we dont have and complain about prices, waste my time.

Most of the prices are only marked up 10 dollars on fish and corals. Not too bad, since you get to cherry pick it and you dont have to ship it anywhere.

LFS are really good and if you give them your money, usally some places do a little kick back from time to time. "oh you spent 2000 on fish and coral, go ahead and take this coral here and yeah we will nock off 50 dollars off that light"

LFS karma. It does exist in most places.
_________________
history of recession

 

[shavo]

WOW look what this has become, This was seriously not my intention, and I don't have no minds made up and I am not as stubborn as you think i was just posing a question. I am not happy with my LFS, maybe you have a good one. try mine out and see if it is the same, The good one in the area burned down and they are rebuilding.
My LFS owner\manager drives a 400 horsepower vet and he is a really too full of himself to actually work the floor or anything like that but I see him harrass the help. I don't spend money there anymore because they do not cater to everybody equally and the people they have working aren't great at helping out with saltwater questions at all. The managers on duty aren't customer oriented. They have a program at this store where if you buy something they have a rewards card that they swipe every time you purchase. I never took points off of this thing for like 2 years and every purchase just kept adding to the total. WEll the one day I wanted something and was short on cash and said it's time I am not leaving with out it. I went to the counter with my fish and pulled out my rewards card. They told me it was useless they had a computer crash and couldn't determine what I actually had.
I don't know, I wish you people could visit this store and look at the prices and look at the service, and tell me would you consider it a value worth investing in.

sorry to ruffle everybodies feathers

 

[Anonymous]

Now I am confused. Now you seem to be complaining about your individual LFS and how poorly customer oriented they are. I could have sworn the original complaint was the difference between online prices and prices in brick and mortar retail stores and how they are ripping you off cause things can be had for cheaper online.

 

[Len]

Some LFS are great. Some are bad. Your LFS probably left you with a very unfavorable impression of all LFS. We've got plenty of terrible LFS in my area where I am unwilling to pay more money for the same products. But there are nice LFS in my area that I choose to support, even if it costs me more. To some folks, the dollar amount is not the end-all-be-all crtieria (within reason, of course). There are a lot of good reasons - most of which has been explained by others here - why I'd pay more at my LFS. I'm definitely not adverse to buying online. Fact is, I buy most of my equipment online. But I don't feel I'm being ripped off at a LFS simply because they usually (not always) charge more for the same product for online.

I think what "ruffled everybodies' feathers" was some of your word choices and your blanket statements based on your own personal, limited experiences.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree the LFS has to make money on items to cover their operating costs (rent, cash flow, stock, livestock not lasting). I prefer to shop locally for livestock and drygoods But they prices make it very tough as a consumer. if I am in an emergency and I am stuck I have to buy if I have to. Most of the time the LFS's dont carry what I need when it breaks anyway.

Example - Mag12 pump is $149 at the LFS. I can get it online for $69. I can overnight it for $30 more and still be allot cheaper than the LFS. Now if the LFS sold it for $100 I would probably buy it from them in an emergency but I cant see throwing away $60-70 for the same $70 pump.

The one main LFS I used to go to all the time I use them as a last resort for everything now. I bought 5 tanks from them, first set of pumps, lights, filters, fish, corals, totalling allot of money. When I had a problem a while back I asked the LFS if they would hold a fish for me. They said no, but they would take the fish to resell and give me nothing for it. I had no choice so I gave them the fish. A few months later I went to the store to buy another fish adn the owner was there. I tried to say Hello and see how things were going and he looked at me and ran to the back room and hid.

Customer Service stinks in most places. So for me to want to give the little guy the extra $$$ and to not even get a polite hello, they can go take a hike and I will buy from antoher source.

As a consumer you have to look to save money where you can most of the time.

On another note there are some LFS owners I have chatted with online and they seem to run their stores good and care what the person is buying. If they were near me I would definetly shop there and share the wealth.